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calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy.
      #11092 - Mon Nov 17 2008 10:32 PM

How bout it, Frenchy is looking for assistance at BT:


General Discussion - span 45'possible with a heavy load? Subscribe
From: frenchy 2:24 pm
To: ALL (1 of 1)

112957.1

Friend of mine wants to build a tower on top of a hanger. Hanger has to be a minimum of 45 wide to fit his airplane and he needs to put a relatively heavy tower in the center of the span.. (right over the hanger door opening)..

(wish Boss Hog wasn't banned)

He can use steel or web trusses or even TGI's of whatever thickness would provide him enough strength but I suspect the wind loading would be far in excess of anything spanning that distance. Before we get busy hiring a engineer to do the actaul calculation we'd like to know if you've ever seen anything similar?


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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

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JHOLE



Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: calvin]
      #11093 - Mon Nov 17 2008 10:37 PM

Well, from his question it would seem that he would need a
"relatively" strong member to hold up a relatively heavy item.

Can you actually get onBT?

I can't even get on Taunton's home page.

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Boss_Hog



Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: calvin]
      #11096 - Tue Nov 18 2008 12:12 AM

I'll post an answer here. But being as I'm banned from BT I would prefer that no one copy the response back over there. Frenchy can read it here easily enough.

I don't see why a tower couldn't be put on top of a 45' roof truss. I've done 60' clear span 8/12 field spliced scissor trusses for churches with 40 foot steeples on them.

The biggest problem is often just getting someone to do the wind design calcs on the steeple or tower. I've seen tall steeples that have in excess of 10,000# of uplift on one side of the steeple in a wind situation. So holding the thing DOWN is generally more difficult that holding it UP.


No doubt this would require some engineering and some time. But there's also no doubt that it's doable with roof trusses.

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calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11097 - Tue Nov 18 2008 12:53 AM

I gave him the link to this thread. If he's read it I imagine he might be by to take a look.

Thanks Ron.

As to BT-I've had it on all day, still there.

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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

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Boss_Hog



Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: calvin]
      #11098 - Tue Nov 18 2008 01:35 AM

BTW - I forgot to add that coating the wood members of the trusses with shellac will NOT significantly increase the strength of said trusses.




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calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11099 - Tue Nov 18 2008 01:46 AM

shellac will NOT significantly increase the strength of said trusses.

You never know.

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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

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spheramid



Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11100 - Tue Nov 18 2008 02:26 AM

What if they are next to free black walnut and 3' long stainless steel lag bolted? Huh? What then? Huh?

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john7g



Reged: Mar 30 2008
Posts: 16
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11101 - Tue Nov 18 2008 02:50 AM

and remember to spec prefectly installed lag bolts.

oh, and almost forgot the tornado proof design considerations as well.


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john7g



Reged: Mar 30 2008
Posts: 16
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: spheramid]
      #11102 - Tue Nov 18 2008 02:51 AM

Doh! you beat me to the lag bolts.

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calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11119 - Tue Nov 18 2008 06:19 AM

Frenchy advises he had trouble registering here and cannot post.

But sends along a Thank You, boss.

Remember, it only took him what-3 yrs to post a picture?

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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

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Heck



Reged: Nov 16 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: calvin]
      #11120 - Tue Nov 18 2008 06:29 AM

I think it was a picture of shellac.

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calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11122 - Tue Nov 18 2008 02:18 PM


I feel like I'm passing notes in High School.

Thanks Boss Hog for your help with the roof trusses.
out of couriousity if we got some web trusses spaced close together and strengthened them by glueing and nailing plywood on either side to form a box beam what sort of strength could we carry over
45 feet?

frenchy.

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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

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Mistah_T



Reged: May 19 2002
Posts: 135
Loc: Elmira, NY
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11127 - Tue Nov 18 2008 02:47 PM

Can you get 60 ft trusses in $0.03/bd-ft walnut??

If you can't you just aren't trying...

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Do NOT try this at home!!
I am a trained Professional!


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Boss_Hog



Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: calvin]
      #11130 - Tue Nov 18 2008 02:57 PM

Regarding the question that was posted about putting some trusses together and adding plywood gussets -

My answer to that is not only no, but HELL no. Why go to all that trouble when you can have the solution designed right from the start? Just get the new roof trusses designed to hold the appropriate loads and be done with it.


The trouble with some "seat of the pants" engineering like that is you really have no idea what you need to do know how strong it needs to be when you're done. You don't know what parts of the truss to reinforce, how big to make the gussets, how many nails, how many trusses to use, etc.

I believe Frenchy said this building was to be done on a budget. Can you imagine how expensive it would be if you get the thing built and THEN figure out that something is wrong?

Doing something half baked like that is nuts. Do it right or don't do it at all.

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PIFFIN



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11133 - Tue Nov 18 2008 04:43 PM

Boss I just KNOW you're going to get a kick out of this. Frenchy is now considering steel beams from bridges that have been removed, salt pitted and uncertain quality.

Now I know the shellac will keep them from deteriorating further, but will it restore them to what once was?



I'd feel bad about this post, but it is frenchy!
It is sounding like his friend is much like him.

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Excellence is its own reward!


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john7g



Reged: Mar 30 2008
Posts: 16
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11136 - Tue Nov 18 2008 05:37 PM

"Doing something half baked like that is nuts."

We are talking about Frenchy aren't we?

I think the whole plan is faulted and somebody's whacky idea to make their hangar look like a church. I've been around hangars & aviation for the better part of my life and this idea is the least feasible idea I've heard. If a tower on top of the hangar is a necessitty the most practical place is one of back corners opposite the hangar door. Those back corners tend to be office, shop, or storage space so columns there wouldn't be in a issue. A tower and roof access for people to watch this guy workout in his Pitts Special is going to (or should) draw some very close scrutiny by the local BIs and more than likely require it have a healthy safety factor built into it as well as occupancy limits. Talk about an expensive way to build an observation platform so people can watch the pilot inflate his ego.

But why a tower? Wy not a plain old flat balcony on top of or on the side the hangar? Not glamorous enough I guess.

John


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Boss_Hog



Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: john7g]
      #11138 - Tue Nov 18 2008 06:55 PM

Quote:

"We are talking about Frenchy aren't we?




When people ask me a question about trusses I always try to answer honestly and give accurate info. Sometimes the OP doesn't like what they hear or has strange ideas. But I don't care - I stick with what I know.

Even if the OP doesn't learn anything, someone else might. Which is one of the reasons why I always insisted that people post truss questions on BT rather than email me directly.

I certainly don't know everything. But trusses is something I know well, and I won't participate in half assed answers to serious questions.

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calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11139 - Tue Nov 18 2008 07:59 PM

But trusses is something I know well...

And if you don't mind I'll continue to post a link here at QT if I run across one at Breaktime. Might expand the knowledge base away from the bitch session.

Waiting on the cable guy-boy, their 2 hour window seems to have bled into the next one. Now I understand the old 4 hour window.

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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

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Boss_Hog



Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: calvin]
      #11141 - Tue Nov 18 2008 09:02 PM

Quote:

if you don't mind I'll continue to post a link here at QT if I run across one at Breaktime.




Suits me just fine.

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john7g



Reged: Mar 30 2008
Posts: 16
Re: Boss-Long Span-Sizable load-Frenchy. [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #11143 - Tue Nov 18 2008 10:13 PM

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that you present a half-baked asnwer, Ron; more like the initial idea is half-baked.

Your honest answers are what's gotten you the reputation that you have and I doubt we'd be friends if you did otherwise.


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