Quittintime: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN:
 

The entire forum is open to viewing. But you must Register if you wish to post.


The Back Porch >> Your Shout!

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | >> (show all)
JHOLE



Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN:
      #10190 - Sun Nov 09 2008 12:28 AM

If you happen to not be able to get into the tavern ( or Breaktime for some of us) Check in here and check back to find out what's up.....

I have no information other than being blocked a couple weeks ago under the JHOLE screenname from everything. I just get a blank screen with " Page doesn't work. Try again"

I can get into Breaktime with mhole.

Hard to come up with a full list of who's out and to what degree.

Noone seems to know what the deal is, but it may help if you at least check in and let the status of your screenname known.

I have some ideas but aint gonna go into it yet.

--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: JHOLE]
      #10191 - Sun Nov 09 2008 12:40 AM

I'll reply that the situation over at BT is one poorly thoughtout, juvenile, and backward. There's always been flame wars and lately certainly is not an exception. What gets me is prior to the recent Saturday (or Tuesday) nite massacre, there's been no real reading with comprehension done by the moderators.

There's been bad word get arounds where you change letters to apostrophe's etc so it looks the same. The old XXXX evidently wasn't enough impact for some people. Now I know here if someone trys a spelling get-around we'd (I) maybe delete the post and probably email the poster about why. Keep it up and I might be able to get help and figure a way to ban your usage-certainly couldn't do it with my internet talents.

But use the ever popular XXXX-hell I do it now on here and BT. I guess to the purest-there's no difference. But to me- #%!&*^$ , seems just different enough.

Back to the BT situation. I think we all agree that there's some who were kicked off that no one who's been around for just a bit of time wouldn't say "are you kidding me?" These are regulars of some pretty consistant stature. If they crossed the line (which I doubt) then delete the post-email 'em an explanation and be done with it.

It seems as though (to me) there's very little thought gone into this.

But you know I'm just a dumb carpenter.

edit: I see here we use the ever popular SIGNS ABOVE THE NUMBERS ON THE KEYBOARD instead of the foul words.

--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

Edited by calvin (Sun Nov 09 2008 01:08 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Boss_Hog



Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: JHOLE]
      #10192 - Sun Nov 09 2008 01:25 AM

No doubt I'm outa there.

I was apparently banned on Thursday. I assume it was either for saying "Bite me" or for using the word "bullsh!t".

I emailed folks at Taunton twice, but never got an acknowledgement or response. That really pisses me off.

This morning I set up an alternate account called "BossHogLives" and posted a question directed to RDA asking what was going on. That thread was promptly removed, and that profile was banned too.


Someone suggested to me that we try to organize a boycott of BT. I initially thought that was a bad idea. But now I'm thinking it sounds reasonable.

They obvously think very little of us. Why have any respect for them?

--------------------
.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #10193 - Sun Nov 09 2008 01:36 AM

The boycott if done by everydamnone of the regulars and by that I mean those of us who have a long history right on down to those that show up on occasion with a question, might work to show that the forum is more than just a gift from Taunton. The forum is there, the questions will continue from those that read the mag or somehow stumble on the site. However, if the answers are given by unknowledgable responders, then its value must surely diminish. It would end up a DIY message board.

But, it would have to be pretty substantial-way more than us fest goers and those of you that have been banned.

Organizing it would take a bit of doing, and would the result be one of the magnitude that Taunton would take notice? Beats me. Certainly something to think about.
Pleas for information have thusfar gone unanswered. I can't think of anyone we could call over there to get a straight answer.

I met Kevin Ironton once-maybe I'll give him a call Monday morning. Worst he could do is pass me on to someone that might be able to struggle through an answer.

--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Heck



Reged: Nov 16 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: calvin]
      #10194 - Sun Nov 09 2008 02:03 AM

I see a boycott as being more of a statement than an effective 'strike' that produces policy changes at BT.

Consider that TPTB may want to run off all the old guard, for reasons unknown to reason.

But a boycott of a predetermined duration may show our great displeasure at the callow treatment shown to those who have helped develop the BT community and make it the draw that it is. A duration of at least two weeks of absolute boycott by those of us who are not banned, then those that wish to return are free to do so. I have no illusion that we can recreate that community here, so there will be many who choose to return to participate in what may be left of a diluted forum. And it will go on without those who choose not to return, be certain of that.

What impact can those who are banned have in this? They certainly can't boycott until they have been readmitted.

I think that many members have been treated very poorly, in a very heavy-handed manner, and they deserve an outlet to express their indignation.

I can do without BT myself, I'm not sure I can do without all the people who make up BT.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 2391
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: Heck]
      #10195 - Sun Nov 09 2008 02:13 AM

Mr Heck-I agree with all you have said. Stepping out with the wife right now so I'll be short.

Folks from BT-feel free-after you register to post-to post your thoughts or to communicate with your fellow BT'ers. There's a member list here that might give you a hint of who's on board. If you direct a message to them-you might get lucky that they'll be notified by this board of that message-stranger things have happened.

Let's keep this boycott thing in discussion.

It worked for Grapes.

Thanks.

--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scarecrow



Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: calvin]
      #10196 - Sun Nov 09 2008 02:16 AM

Hey I'm in for a boycott. I think it sucks ya'll got das boot.

--------------------
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Edited by Scarecrow (Sun Nov 09 2008 02:19 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Boss_Hog



Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: Heck]
      #10197 - Sun Nov 09 2008 02:21 AM

I think Heck's idea of a 2 week boycott is a good one. I don't know how else we could send a signal to them LEGALLY.


Before we call a strike, I figure we should see how many people support it. There's no sense trying it if only a handful of people will participate.

--------------------
.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
catfish



Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 1
Loc: Florida Gulf Coast
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #10198 - Sun Nov 09 2008 02:26 AM

Count me in I don't like the way they did it, whether or not it their site.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scarecrow



Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #10199 - Sun Nov 09 2008 02:26 AM

Boss, I'm not banned yet. If we get enough for a boycott I'll go in at spead the word in every folder there. I'm sure that after that I will be banned but so what. I'm just looking for good building info when I need it and a debate or two. If this new fern bar has what I'm looking for great.

--------------------
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rez



Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: calvin]
      #10200 - Sun Nov 09 2008 03:50 AM

The more I hear about all this the more serious the issue becomes,
being at first it went by me with nary a notice, my thinking just another misplaced heavy from a BT mod.

Now having been alerted to the whole procedure and subsequent lack of response from Taunton's powers that be, this has certainly turned into an event that may have serious implications.

In lieu of the BT moderation difficulties and their lack of attentiveness to the issue I think it only proper to speak in unity by a boycott if it is decided that is the course to take.

So you count me in for something must be said in response to this behavior.

Wonder if they would remove their support of Quittin' Time in the event?

Cheers to all.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jeff_J_Buck



Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: JHOLE]
      #10201 - Sun Nov 09 2008 03:54 AM

I'm here and out there.

was temp banned for 2 weeks, the was supposed to end Oct 27th. So after asking why I was still on "read only" access, I found myself completely locked out with no additional info.

Jeff J. Buck


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jeff_J_Buck



Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: Jeff_J_Buck]
      #10202 - Sun Nov 09 2008 03:55 AM

Hey ... what time zone is this place set to?

I'm 3 hours into the future ...

Jeff


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ANDYBUILDZ



Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: JHOLE]
      #10204 - Sun Nov 09 2008 04:28 AM

It'd be very easy to boycott them and it could be done for weeks on end if we wanted.
All we need are a group of "anonymous volunteers" to go into the profile of everyone on the boards with a letter we compose. Maybe someone like Colleen...Splintergroupie might be the one to write it if she already hasn't been in her head... since she's the wordsmith of the group IMO then we as a group could edit it.
All it would take would be a half dozen people flooding the profile email boxes constantly for several days.

edit: I just emailed a dozen people with this link.
edit: Make that more then three dozen already..gee this'd be easy if people are into it..


--------------------
www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Edited by ANDYBUILDZ (Sun Nov 09 2008 06:00 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scarecrow



Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: Jeff_J_Buck]
      #10205 - Sun Nov 09 2008 05:02 AM

"I'm 3 hours into the future ..."

So what does future jeff have to say does the boycott work?

--------------------
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pierre1



Reged: Apr 22 2005
Posts: 13
Loc: British Columbia (Rocky Mounta...
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: calvin]
      #10206 - Sun Nov 09 2008 06:07 AM

Jeff, got your notice via my BT profile, and I agree the situation at hand is abusive.

I just posted in PlumbBill's goodbye thread - hard to believe the publisher would give him the heave ho.

As to what happened, to tell the truth I am not up to date with the latest and baddest insults that were traded on the Tavern, nor do I know how many were banned. The last 6 months or so I've only occasionally piped up as I was tired of the relentless "did so - did not" that US election 'discussions' degenerated into.

All this to say that my boycotting BT would not likely be noticed, but out of solidarity with you guys and out of gratitude to those of you who helped me out over the years, I will certainly join the boycott.

If we organize ourselves to use BT profile feature to send discrete notices to those likely to at least not rat on us (as ratting would probably result in BT temporarily disabling the Profile or PM feature). Reaching those who contribute content on technical and business matters would be the best way to make the publisher take notice that, in reality, we are the ones who are providing their HO and DIY readers with a supportive context in which their questions are answered in a competent way. Once the answers stop, the publisher will surely notice. Once the boycott starts, it will probably be best not to monitor the situation from our known names/URL.

Let me know how I can help.

Pierre1


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ANDYBUILDZ



Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: Boss_Hog]
      #10207 - Sun Nov 09 2008 06:08 AM

Quote:

I think Heck's idea of a 2 week boycott is a good one. I don't know how else we could send a signal to them LEGALLY.


Before we call a strike, I figure we should see how many people support it. There's no sense trying it if only a handful of people will participate.




Not sure how many people you contacted Ron but I emailed almost 40 people with a link to this thread so time will tell.
Calvin posted it within a thread in BT.
I think the PM's will bring them in a lot more efficiently but what ever it takes works for me..
The whole thing is pretty OFFENSIVE if they wanna talk about being offensive!
I'd say just keep contacting folks....that part sure is easy enough.
Will be interesting to see how many people are into this.

--------------------
www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
splintergroupie



Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 83
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: ANDYBUILDZ]
      #10208 - Sun Nov 09 2008 06:29 AM

Hi, Andy. I got your email, so that part works. Put your reading glasses on bec this is one of my trade-mark dissertations that will probably get me banned here, too.

The truth is, i don't think a boycott will work for a variety of reasons:

Many of the posters in the non-Tavern folders don't participate in the Tavern anyway or even resent it. Without their involvement, Taverners' absences wouldn't be noted. Put yourself in their shoes and ask if you'd stop posting to save an off-topic folder that you never post in anyway.

Conversely, many of the more prolific Tavern posters don't post much outside the Tavern, so their presence or absence is immaterial to Taunton.

Thirdly, Taunton uses the website as a vehicle to sell, and they aren't terribly concerned with the quality of information given out as long as potential customers continue to come. Ron's THE go-to guy for truss issues, but that obviously wasn't a consideration.

My particular baggage i bring to such an action is that i got involved in a group effort to make an alternative site to BT when Taunton switched to Prospero. We had a much larger groundswell of political and economic support then and a clear shot at creating something original instead of asking permission to play in someone else's sandbox. For our efforts, Ian and i got a knife in our backs thrown by some of the individuals who created this very site, a pale shadow of what might have been.

Which brings me to my final point about a boycott, that most of those still left inside the Tavern seem to have accepted submission, telling those of us on the outside to bide our time, be sweet, don't rock the boat, keep your fingers crossed, etc. There are others who would be commiting professional suicide to publicly declare support for a boycott even if they agreed with it. If a boycott were to work, it would have to be among all posters, and be a stealth boycott.

BTW, it does not escape my notice whose logo is on the top of the pile on the right side of this page. (Edit: these logos show up only on the post-creation page, but Taunton's logo is at the top.)

I had made a post this morning to the mods saying they were engaged in vandalism of our community, that even though they owned the forum, they had no moral right to kill what we created ourselves. The Tauntonistas have proved themselves to be "community disorganizers" extraordinaire; the whole thread was immediately deleted, not just my post. I think that's a pretty clear signal that those left on the inside are hopelessly optimistic about a rapprochement between management and labor, if you will.

So i wouldn't expect to reach Taunton either with a frontal assault or an appeal to their better natures.

My solution so far has been to defy the bannings by developing new emails and screen names, one after the other as necessary, eliminating all cookies in between them. (The last time i signed up a new name, Taunton placed 24 cookies on my computer before i even posted.)

When i decided what to do about this, i simply looked at the most useful vulnerability Taunton has: they need to register people in order to sell them stuff and that is the Trojan horse we can get in on, even if we get banned. I can't recall how many registrations i went through before i reached stalemate with the mods with the "Tenacious" handle i'm using now to post in threads outside the Tavern. Considering the David/Goliath lack of equivalency in our positions, stalemate is not bad.

With that in mind, recall why the Tavern was developed in the first place.

The only clout we may bring to bear is refusing to be kicked out, then bringing the Tavern to us if we can't go to the Tavern. Taunton will be forced to keep someone constantly vigilant to delete threads and posts by banned people, or they may decide corraling the non-construction stuff in the Tavern isn't such a bad idea after all. That requires only that one become familiar with a number of online free email providers. I'm presently using one called cheerful.com and "giggles" for a P/W, which gives me a perverse sense of Klingon glee vis-a-vis Taunton.

For the life of me, it escapes me why they are so schizophrenic about moderation, with apparently just two settings: OFF and BALLISTIC. Light moderation would be mutually beneficial, but actual adults with healthy egos would have to be hired first.

Sorry to throw water on the parade, Andy. I know how much you want to DO something about it, but what do you think of those caveats i brought up?

Where in the hell is the post button here? Is this it...?

Edited by splintergroupie (Sun Nov 09 2008 06:35 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JHOLE



Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: ANDYBUILDZ]
      #10209 - Sun Nov 09 2008 07:14 AM

Thanks Andy and everyone else.
I e-mailed my butt off by just going through the PM/profile thing over at BT. I am sure that I missed alot of people.

It would seem to me that the first step would be to notify everyone that we can think of. Next, wait for them to come in and find their stances. Then decide the best course of action to take that will come to the most beneficial outcome for all parties involved. NOT JUST FOR THE SHORT TERM, BUT FOR THE CONTINUED MUTUAL BENEFIT OF OUR GROUP, AND WHAT IT HAS TO OFFER,DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY, TO THE HOST'S WELLBEING AND CONTINUED INTERNET PRESENCE WITH ANY SORT OF CREDIBILITY.

I am already half-blocked from any type of interaction on their forum. I can walk away easy. I just feel it is wrong what they are trying to do to a community of some of the best people that I have come across. Disagree or not, I consider my self enriched to have had contact with the overwhelming majority of posters and hate to walk away from them.

Guess we'll see who shows up and how they feel.

--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Heck



Reged: Nov 16 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: splintergroupie]
      #10210 - Sun Nov 09 2008 07:25 AM

As I stated in my previous post, I agree that a boycott would not be an effective tool to effect change in the attitudes of the rulers of BT. However, a ceremonial boycott, a protest if you will, may be an avenue to persue to show that a great number of us feel that their approach to moderation is absolutely wrong. It would give those who were treated so unfairly a place and a means to voice their frustration with such an autocratic regime.

You make many valid points about the division between tavernites and non tavernites, and the reluctance of the majority of Bt'rs to not'rock the boat', more reasons that a boycott would be difficult to organize and would be of only token significance.

I fear that taunton is prepared to suffer the loss of most of the posters that have made up our community in order to impose their will, and they are taking the bet that the forum will rebuild itself without them.

No way else to explain the treatment of people who have been guests in their house for years.

I hope this forum here gives some a place to vent and communicate in this time of confusion, but you well know we will never make this place into the old place.

Your approach may be an effective one by refusing to be kicked out, but only if a large enough number of posters feel the same way, and have the time, energy, and expertise necessary to mount such a campaign long enough to wear them down. Those that do have the attributes necessary will inevitably lose steam over time, making a sustained effort improbable.

I would prefer that they become enlightened in some manner that they have acted outside the realm of good faith, rather than be brought to behave by brute strength, if that is possible.

But I think that it is unlikely that they will see the light.

Edited by Heck (Sun Nov 09 2008 07:26 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 222 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating: *
Topic views: 628468

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us Quittintime

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Please pay
our friends
a visit

(We do not
recieve income
from these links.)