FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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Sorry to jump on QTs board, but since it's a neutral ground, I can answer things here I can't on BT.
So if you want to ask me anything, please do so in reply to this post. Anything goes, except apparently window flashing, as JHOLE says I'm all wrong.
Other than that, you have my attention.
JP
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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OK, what's the plan for Breaktime? what's the plan for the tavern? -
what's the possibility of banned posters regaining their privileges?
D
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bobl
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 176
Loc: Ma
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Kinda general, but what happened and why.
I kinda know what went on in the posts, but I don't understand what happened and why it happened the way it did.
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bobl
Volo, non valeo
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Nice.
I aint buyin it.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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You are more than welcome to use this forum.
I have wondered why no communication between the administration and those banned and also to the board in general re. change of policy.
And this from Piffin, posted in the photo gallery move thread.
From: Piffin Dec-1 8:40 pm
To: FHB_WEB unread (120 of 138)
113243.120 in reply to 113243.117
JPV,
Believe it or not, there are a bunch of guys and gals who would like to work WITH you to save Breaktime and all the good it means for Taunton and for us.
but to work WITH somebody takes communications. Both ways.
I'm working on a theory that maybe you are stuck in a place where you can't figure out how to deal with things as they have gotten to be. Things just got out of hand and you don't know what to do now.
Let me tell you a story.
This goes way back in time to when all the bicycles were Schwinns and had fat tires, the girls wore bobby socks and saddle shoes, plaid skirts and sweaters, and NO body wore a damn baseball cap inside the building.
I was maybe 8-10 years old, can't remember that detail for sure, maybe even 12YO, but I was riding my bicycle along and managed to fall and break my eyeglasses.
No big deal, right? Well, no, not really. Except that I had taken them off my face and put them in my breast pocket.
Dad had told me to wear them
and to take care of them 'cause they were expensive.
I was really trying - I mean I thought they would be safer there than on my face for fooling around and doing active type stuff.
but I had disobeyed HIM!
He was a pretty good Dad in a lot of ways. Taught me all kinds of things and showed me how to learn more by reading and researching stuff.
But dang it all, he was hard as nails when he was disobeyed!
or when it cost him money.
So I was afraid to tell him that I had broken my glasses.
So I put it off for a day
He'll be in a better mood tomorrow
Then I just couldn't get myself to say anything
I'll just go read in my room tonight instead of watching TV and avoid telling him TONIGHT. That'll give me time to figure out how to tell him TOMORROW.
somehow I managed to get myself worked up in a ball of nerves until I had a hard knot in my stomach that got worse and worse each day I put it off. I'd had this silly accident on a wednesday, and it took me eight whole days to work up the nerve...getting sicker and dreading it more all the time.
And I couldn't see for sh!t either! I was getting a headache.
Finally I marched right in and told him, "Dad, I have something to tell you,
"I fell off my bike and broke my glasses"
"Well son, they were a year or two old and getting too small for you anyways, so it's about time for a new pair. Did you get hurt? How's the bike?"
Whew, what a RELIEF! I fessed up and got it out in the open. Man oh man that felt GOOD!!!
JP, I think you are a pretty decent guy and just overwhelmed with this darn forum, stuck by management with moderating it according to the marching orders from the top Lords Of Tauntonville. The ones who get to wear the gold braid on their caps and shoulder epaulets.
I'm also guessing that you are a techno-geek. You have some great skills with programing and working the software. You enjoy that, and the serenity of the cold logic there.
That's good! I don't use the work Geek as any kind of insult, just an observation of what seems to be.
But you don't feel quite so comfortable with 'folks'
They are less predictable. You can fix a runaway loop in the software but when it comes to a similar 'bug' in the forum, you are perplexed so you alternately ignore it or try the cntrl/alt/delete or sometimes the crtl/escape.
But you wanna know what fixes about 9/10s of all the problems PCs have?
You already know, don't you?
A simple restart.
Something like, "Hi, I am JPV, and I want to make this place hum right again. what can I do to get you all on board with me?"
Then listen before punching too many keys. Interact
Maybe even admit things that you've done that were less than pleasing to your own self. Lord Knows I have done the same - been a bad boy here and admitted that I had a part in letting things get too tense and out of hand.
No need to try to play a position - that takes far too much energy.
Just be you. Not what you think "they" want you to be. That clearly isn't working.
I'll help.
Lots of us will
Whaddya tink?
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Rhode Island
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J-P
yes...how do you separate the wheat from the chafe ?
some of those people have been there for 10 years.... with maybe one time-out
others were trolls , there only to stir the political pot... but even the trolls , over the years , tend to mellow when they realize that they are conversing with real people that they woulsd like to get to know
i would thnk one of the major problems is the people who sign up for a restricted thing ... like the tavern... and then don't like the give and take ....
.. they complain to the management
i would think a little more acknowledgement from people who want to be admitted, that they are not going to have baby sitters , might be a start
and a different type of monitoring
what's the plan ?
myself.. i'd pretty much let all of them back in and then throw them out , one-by-one..., as needed, at the next slip-up
i'd also give time-outs for telling teacher...if they can't ignore simple slights , or minor disagreements, they don't belong there either... they should be ignoring a lot of the comments...
as soon as abusers get ignored they either settle down, or go ballistic... so.. it's not really that hard to identify who the real malcontents are
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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I'm kinda with Jhole - Why should we believe this is really someone from Taunton?
Anybody can get on here and make up a screen name. I could be the owner of Taunton and post here in about 5 minutes...
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I think it's Just-Pretendin' instead of Jean-Paul.
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BucksnortBilly
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 61
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
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Good of you to show up... same questions as the others: what happened, and what are the new rules?
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Prove you're who you say you are, please.
Email me at grant at grantlogancopper dot com.
I should be able to tell from your email address and promise to keep the address private.
Thanks
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Oops - didn't read far enough before posting. I see you and jhole also smell something stinky in Helsinki.
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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You ain't buying it?
Guess I'll have to strike you off my sucker list.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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Luka can go further into this machine than I can but from the initial registration it appears to be legit.
I wondered the same thing when first read the message-I mean it seemed odd that you would have to come here to discuss, this is no secret place.
So there's my well uninformed take on it-until the guy with the secret combination can look in the vault-seems legit.
Might as well wait and see b/4 pouring your heart out.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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Why don't you ask Luka to just ask him? It's obvious he knows J-P in some form or another.
All the drama and cloak and dagger. Now this is really kiddy stuff.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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why not ask him?
He lives on the west coast-maybe he sleeps late.
He'll find it soon enough.
Check your email.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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And it is not I if you was wondering......
Myself, I just want to know why people are getting kicked out for just asking what happened.
I think Piffin deserves and answer to his question.
Lefty-and proud of it.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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hi everyone
Just checking in with my iPhone...
Can't reply now but will tonight after work
Sure it's hard to confirm any identity online, especially with people using my name recently (JPbutnotthePope ring a bell)?
I guess the best I can do is offer something FHB related -- hmmm.
John Spier has a nice article on exterior trimming in the next issue? Nah.
How about you just email me at jpvellotti (at) Taunton (dot) com
And fair warning. The spam filter is set on high for that email so I might not get to everyone. I'd rather use this forum instead
JP
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Hey, I just found this but have to run off to work right now -might be my last good weather for a few days so gotta git'n'do.
But I wanted to say Bravo for standing up and being here. Hope it works to the positive for all of us.
Catch you later 
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Excellence is its own reward!
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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It's him.
This is legit.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Cool. Now that we have him with some small desire to be here...
I say we kick his ass off.
Just kiddin.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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O.K. - I'll take CU's word for it that you're legit.
You already know the questions well enough, so I won't bother repeating them.
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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What I'm hoping for here is an honest dialogue that doesn't turn into a personal attack flame war. I want to really know what Taunton is planning for the forums down the road, and if there is a desire to have industry professionals and other quality contributors participate.
One question I have is why is BT treated differently than the other forums under Taunton's banner as it comes to leeway for posting and the censoring of certain words.
(Don't get me started on the banner)
Would have addressed to "ALL" if I could.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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JP,
Thanks for coming here. There's lots of questions and a hopefully some negotiating to be done on both sides. Your email indicated that you would be willing to do some talking here and clear the air a bit. Thank you for that. The lack of communication has been frustrating for all and I think has compounded the pushback.
I, for one, would be interesting in a post from you lining out what is and is not allowed on BT. With some clear go-forward guidelines, I'm hoping things can get kicked off of high center and get back to something that people can live with.
First and foremost is porn. There have been several direct links to porn and that is an obvious NO No. What else?
If people know the boundaries, then moderation gets a bunch easier and there's no hard feelings when the mods take action.
Could you also take a minute to lay out your vision of the go forward strategy for BT. If the eventual plan is to shut down BT or the Tavern for good, we may as well know it now.
I think that there are many here who are interesting in a productive and postive move forward.
Is there any chance of getting two things to happen:
1) restoring the handles of the people that were banned that were good posters and about which there's a general feeling of "unfaired upon". If we can agree on a short list, could you see your way clear to reinstate them?
2) opening up the tavern to new posters. with no new blood, it will certainly die a slow and painful death. The problem with that is that the topics will spill back onto the main board, as they are inevitable.
Lastly, what would like to see FROM US? Lay it out and I bet we can get some agreement.
Thanks,
SquarePeg
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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It is the real JP from Taunton.
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Janitor
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Quote:
What I'm hoping for here is an honest dialogue that doesn't turn into a personal attack flame war.
Exactly what I want to see, as well.
To all:
I can moderate with a heavy hand, or a light one. Don't MAKE me come over there ! 
I will not stand for personal attacks in this thread.
And don't nit-pik with me. I don't care what your own interpretation of the word attack, or personal, is... If I think you are attacking, or picking, or even looking crooked, you'll be out of here faster than you came in.
JP has put his neck out, to come here.
He is showing goodwill. Show some in return.
If you just want to vent, take it elsewhere. This is an opportunity to communicate. Not to denigrate.
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Janitor
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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JP,
I appreciate you coming here in an attempt to open communication. I'll save any questions I have until you're done answering the rest.
Neil
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bobby
Reged: Nov 21 2008
Posts: 31
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Thank you for responding , I would like to ask{bobby shuffing his feet lookin contrite} for this Christmas , A pardon for the people banned,If this cannot be done i would like a..."Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and a thing which tells time", OK maybe your not the guy to ask but i cant get on BT to ask WALTER
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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but i cant get on BT to ask WALTER
Are you assuming Walter will let you sit in his lap?
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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This is to everyone. And J-PV too
One of the things everybody complained about in the past couple months as things went bad and worse is that the enforcement and moderation was very unevenly done. This was compounded by the fact that almost nobody received any answers to emails questioning, "What did I do wrong?"
here is a great chance to ask and to recieve - not to back up and hash over every slight and wound, but to clarify what is the intent and the rules, and how will it be enforced.
To bann one person the first time they step over the line or barely do so, while others get away with the same or worse multiple times confuses all of us. That frustration then boils over in ways that is bad for the forums.
Time to man-up and put the bruised ego in a bucket someplace and say it is time we can behave like professionals, if not gentlemen.
and JP - you might consider after detailing some things as requested about rules, a blanket pardon for members caught up in the sweep as a sign of goodwill, along with a warning to those who persist in acting like trolls while complaining overmuch about their own bruised egos, that as Mike Smith suggested, THEY might be recognized as the source of the problem and likewise banned again too.
From myself, I am sorry for my own acts stepping over the line and acting ugly. I really have been working to correct that.
It really doesn't hurt at all to practice some humility.
Not at all.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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bobby
Reged: Nov 21 2008
Posts: 31
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I wont sit on his lap but i will put out cookies and a cold grasshopper for him if he comes down the chimmny
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john7g
Reged: Mar 29 2008
Posts: 15
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you'll shoot your eye out
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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I am looking forward to the dialog, and if you say it's the real deal I believe you, but really Luka do we need all this warning on how to act?,
That stuff puts a decidedly bad taste in my mouth. We are adults here and can police ourselves without this continual I'm the boss routine.
If someone shows disrespect I'm sure the next post will tell the guy or gal to lighten up. Everybody knows your the boss in this place.
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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Yes...Piffin
I agree with you. i think this will be good for both side3s. Whens the dialog begin?
By the way......I sent an e-mail to J-P and he returned one. So that gives him a huge lift in my world.
Edited by polcat11 (Wed Dec 03 2008 03:11 PM)
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john7g
Reged: Mar 29 2008
Posts: 15
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let's see how FHB WEB responds. I'm a bit suspicious.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Quote:
We are adults here and can police ourselves.....
Oh sure. Look how well that worked in the main "Tavern refugee" thread.
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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I don't see how he could be gaming us by using the e-mail addy he did. I think it's the man.......
and I really din't mind if he KIAs the whole deal.....just wanna hear it from his lips........
it's like my last girl friend....she just wouldn't answer the phone......much nicer to hear her say look you are an ugly jerk beat it.
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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yeah, but that was atime to vent..this is a time to listen.
That was a time of anger....this is a time to find some peace.
If that can't happen, then JP is gonna prove he was right all along.
It's up to us . . . who else?
A guy goes over the edge we all jump in his junk......easy.
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john7g
Reged: Mar 29 2008
Posts: 15
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OK, here's the question. As an employee/representative of FHB JP has certain rules to follow. When I was an employee of a large comapny (as big as 75k employees one time) they basically had a gag order on us, no speaking to the press about anything. They had a hired pro for that. My bet is Taunton would have the same thing, especially when they have a Brand Image to protect (which is debatable as the mag has morphed since it's inception).
Why can the 'real' Jean Paul speak here and not on FHB's site? There's enough of us posting the link to Quittintime that there's no secrecy here. If FHB/Taunton condones him speaking here then why not through their own site?
Given enough time and interest I bet I could find a way to use your e-mail (if I knew it) to sign up here.
I hope I'm wrong and it is the real J-P but I'll keep my skepticism.
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Dino
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Neil--I told ya he wasn't the real black hat in this Spaghetti Western....
(TO ALL: Not that anyone should need another vote of confidence after Luka's and Grant's, but FWIW I can also confirm this thread was started by the real J.P.)
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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Me too. He returned an email saying he'd "open up communication" minutes before this thread went up.
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FatRoman
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Quote:
I wont sit on his lap but i will put out cookies and a cold grasshopper for him if he comes down the chimmny
I'm just here to see what Grant's quip is with this post. 
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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Me?
I'm just hoping it isn't j-p's bowling night. Don't think I can wait up too long.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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yeah me too......I'm getting ready to grab a glass of wine and ..........
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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The way time works in this place, he might be here earlier tonight.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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OK, I'm here...
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Cool, spill the beans. LOL
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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It's gonna be a long night.
There have been numerous inquiries ahead of this post. Why don't you just start by addressing some of those.
Piffin's seemed to be a favorite, well written and thought out.
Thanks for stopping by JP.
Eric
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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Welcome, have a seat and start right in on those responses.
This isn't a chat room, you've got plenty to go with up above.
Thanks again for this discussion.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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yes, I'm doing the copy/paste thing and will be posting answers shortly...
we could certainly use a chatroom, b/c I'd glady hold an open chat...
and, are we all cool that it's me already?
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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sure.........now what?
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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JP, you get a chance, hit that "who's online" button up top. Looks like the front two rows are filled.
You're quite the draw.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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Ok, some answers...
first, @ piffin -- I never saw your long post, so that's why I never answered it. I have it here now, and will read and post reply.
now, on to the shorter questions posted above. I sorted them and tried to put them in order:
@ bobl -- Kinda general, but what happened and why?
Short history here -- BT has never had any real plan other than to let people interact and occasionally we pull out info to use in the mag. That might go away, btw, not b/c we don't value the advice, but page space.
Anyways, as most of you know, when advertisers started showing up in the forums, we had to start paying attention. Certain posts/behavior caught certain peoples attention, and we got out the broom...and the broom turned into a shovel.
Getting tired of tossing people one at a time, our group of moderators put together a list of people and their offenses, and I took action. I tossed some, blocked some, and ignored some people on the list b/c I didn't think they did anything that bad...
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ mike smith -- how do you separate the wheat from the chafe ?
that's a two part question. Part one is how I did the above, and part two is how we will do it in the future. As part of this discussion, I will revise the acceptable use policy with examples and post online...
violators will be either warned or banned. The problem with the timeouts is that they are too time consuming. We don't have an automated system that lets us check off something and then you go back in the pool when your timeout is over. It's actually a piece of paper...
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Quote:
Anyways, as most of you know, when advertisers started showing up in the forums, we had to start paying attention.
I had no knowledge of that.
Quote:
Getting tired of tossing people one at a time, our group of moderators put together a list of people and their offenses, and I took action. I tossed some, blocked some, and ignored some people on the list b/c I didn't think they did anything that bad...
Why no warnings?
And why no communication for so long?
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ David Doud -- OK, what's the plan for Breaktime? what's the plan for the tavern?
The tavern was very close to getting closed and I took action to calm it down and take the heat off it. For some reason, BT has a reputation of attracting heated discussion. I don't visit the other forums, so I can't say for sure that people at CT don't get heated about proper veggie cutting techniques...
I don't plan to close the tavern, but it may shortly get a do-over, or new folder. I value a place where builders and non-builders can come in and bs over football games or whatever. I've seen some very good discussion in BT. There's a technical reason about the do-over -- we are no longer going to have permission based forums, it will be all or nothing, and not sure the folder can do this once it's been assigned a permissions.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ David cntd...
so, ultimately, we are going to move BT into some other forum technology that simply works better, like is included in the site search. The whole FHB.com site is moving that way, but we have to wait in line for the coders to get coding.
additionally, we want to see all this great information that's buried in BT somehow move out into the main site so more people can find it. You might understand that there are lots of people who just don't use forums for whatever reason.
The project gallery starts this idea. We were hoping that peoples comments are similar to BT threads and more visible to others.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ boss hog's above question -- Why no warnings?
Warnings were initially given, but then there were endless appeals about why such and such weren't in the wrong. I got tired of the process.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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Sorry to interupt, you can answer this in more detail later.
This statement is going to send shivers through some of us that have been there for a long time:
additionally, we want to see all this great information that's buried in BT somehow move out into the main site so more people can find it.
?
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ john7g - When I was an employee of a large company/gag order/our Brand image to protect.
Not sure the exact question, but I can answer more freely here, and me communicating with you is helping our brand, I think.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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They were not given.
I don't really care at this point, but don't lie.
If you think they were given, then you need to look at your system. They were not given.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Is FHB planning on letting any of the banished back in to the forum?
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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<<BT has never had any real plan other than to let people interact and occasionally we pull out info to use in the mag. that might go away , btw, not b/c we don't value the advice, but page space.
>>
Some shivers there, too, most likely.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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He doesn't mean the last and final wave, he means the 6-9 months of warning after warning, I bet.
Edited by SquarePeg (Wed Dec 03 2008 06:24 PM)
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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Ok, @ calvin -- per above statement.
Everyone recognizes that BT has great info. I stupidly searched google for some info about poly iso and tyvek, and couldn't find a definitive answer. Then DUH!, I am the ME of FHB.com, and wouldn't you know, you all knew.
So those above me would like to see this info help others in other ways than list view.
Some ideas kicking around are giving people blogs on FHB.com, creating an ask the experts panel, and a few others with legs. I'm also open to suggestions.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ JHOLE / SqPeg
Yes, I mean warnings prior to the big boot.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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Ask the experts is a good idea. But you have to let Boss Hog back in. he's your truss man. =)
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ Eric_Paulson (and others, Like CAGIV who emailed me but I haven't received and answer from the tech group) -- Is FHB planning on letting any of the banished back in to the forum?
I'm not ruling it out. There may be a technical issue that people banned can't come back. I'm waiting to hear.
Mike Smith (I think, I received a lit of emails today) suggested an amnesty. I might consider a non-denominational-holiday present once some new ground rules are set.
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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I was emailed about a post, so don't call him a liar,please.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ SquarePeg -- what would like to see FROM US?
For one, posting within the rules (which I mentioned above will be amended with examples). You have to understand that a) I don't really care what you talk about, but it's not my private forum and BT draws attention. And when dozens of violations get reported, they don't go to me, they go to our customer service group, and then me. Capiche?
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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I just banned a poster in a forum of mine (powered by old prospero technology) and was able to uncheck "banned" and restore their privelidges with no damage to their history or username.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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Fair nuff.
Would you like a team of volunteers from the regular posters to help tamp things down before they get to the Customer Service Team?
I bet you could get 5 or 6 guys to volunteer.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ SquarePeg and All -- re: what do I want to see from you?
Honestly, that's it. Just keep it clean. Have fun. Don't draw undo attention that goes outside BT. And please realize that there are lots (I can't give out the number) of BT'rs and out of them, there are some way outside this group that come in and get booted. So please don't think this was just a Tavern bust, b/c we looked everything. Those people just went away.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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I am going to go get a beer and then I'll tackle Piffin's diatribe. I guess this is the featured event?
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Okay, now you're a group of one so far.
I'm just watching, listening, reading, and lettin' it fall where it falls. It's my nature to call BS when I see it.
I don't have a dog in this fight. 'Cause I don't care about where my friends go - I just hate to see them split up by some outside influence or entity. I'll go where they go. When they don't want me around, I'll be happy for them still being free and together.
--------------------
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Mike_Ryan
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Kissimmee, FL
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Why the silence on the BT forum? I, as a frequent lurker, was put off by what was perceived as arrogance from the staff. Obviously, the attraction of BT is for Joe Homeowner to go there and ask a question, no matter how elementry that question is, and get a rapid, informative and thorough response from someone that deals with that situation everyday. Yes they received some ribbing, but no one was ever flamed out of the post. Try that same question at JLC and see how much information that poster would get.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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Quote:
I am going to go get a beer and then I'll tackle Piffin's diatribe. I guess this is the featured event?
=) Pound of flesh, I guess.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ Mike Ryan -- agreed about the JLC bit. Nobody can ask anything there. But we don't define that BT draws Joe homeowner...in fact, we have no idea how people get there, but it's not google b/c BT as it is now isn't SEO optimized and doesn't get spidered well. Part of the reason we want to switch technology so these good discussions get found. Again, that's part of the moving stuff out of Breaktime quote above.
What I should really have said was make BT info more easily found, and that means better forums and other places for questions/comments/info sharing.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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A Christmas Story is on. Who wanted the Red Ryder BB gun?
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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"and when dozens of violations get reported, they don't go to me, they go to our customer service group, and then me."
what is 'customer service group' code for?
what happens when someone reports a 'violation' at your forum?
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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I'm one of the guys who is completely in the dark as to why I got dumped from the Tavern.......but that's ok. too many rules will chase me away anyways.......
What I'm wondering is now that I can still get into the public threads I am seeing threads disappearing at an alarming rate. Non political/non religious...seemingly pretty innocent in content.
I have offered (for free) thirty five years of experience to your DIY types and enjoyed it.
What I don't enjoy is getting a decent thread pulled out from under me.....whats up with that?
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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What I should really have said was make BT info more easily found, and that means better forums and other places for questions/comments/info sharing.
I know to me pulling, separating and things of that sort reek of dividing and changing a beautiful example of an information board. I hope that is not the case. If you had a search feature that could direct FHB.com viewers to already made BT posts, you wouldn't have to move anything.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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>>>A Christmas Story is on. Who wanted the Red Ryder BB gun?
We all do, but the men are watching Victoria's Secret.
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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JP,
What do you mean by technical issue? SOmething that would not allow the old ID to be used?
Obviously I've been back to BT under a new name, and you haven't given me the boot. I'd like the old name back b/c of the e-mail assoicaited with it. I may not be smart enough to figure out how to change the e-mail of the new ID but when I set up a new account I could not use the old e-mail b/c it was "already" in use.
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Mike_Ryan
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Kissimmee, FL
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I agree, whereas they don't always disappear, they do seem to get buried quickly on the "next 50", while some posts that have little activity stick to the front page.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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I think "unbanning" the usernames is possible. I just tested it in the control tab of one of my forums (same software, if Taunton hasn't been heavily customized)
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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I think Knots was expanded hugely a couple of years ago - dunno if that kind of modification is what they are thinking of -
along with making the forum searchable from google/et al - and thus allowing anyone to search the web and click into the forum discussions directly -
wasn't that long ago that BT was made 'private' was it? (entry by registering, no 'guest' status?) - I think when the switch was made to prospero that content became hidden from the search engines -
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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OK, on to Piffin's note:
-- but to work WITH somebody takes communications. Both ways.
I'm here.
-- I'm working on a theory that maybe you are stuck in a place ... and Things just got out of hand.
Yep..
-- Let me tell you a story...
Good point. All relationships need communication, and I was just too busy to take care of BT, and it was always someone else's job. Then one day that person gave it up, I got the call, and in short order had no time for the necessary give and take (plus, when I did, there wasn't much give).
I also broke my glasses at the same age, and felt real bad b/c they cost $400 25 years ago and we had no money. I think my father decided that my eyes were cured at that point and I no longer needed them.
-- I'm also guessing that you are a techno-geek. You have some great skills with programing and working the software.
Nope, couldn't write a line of code. I'm an editorial guy.
-- But you don't feel quite so comfortable with 'folks'
Not true, although I admit that I expected all builders at Breakfest and was surprised at such diversity. My dad is a contractor, and I grew up on jobsites.
-- A simple restart.
might just happen.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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What I'm wondering is now that I can still get into the public threads I am seeing threads disappearing at an alarming rate. Non political/non religious...seemingly pretty innocent in content.
This is news to me. I haven't pulled a thread in at least 2 weeks. I'll check into it.
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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I believe what is happening is those threads are getting booted down to the tavern but without access one can not see them, if you try to go back to the thread it comes up as the thread does not exist.
I posted a topic about Dr Pepper that was bounced to the tavern. I posted it as an attempt to get back-door access into the tavern, a while ago if you posted a topic that went to the tavern you were given tavern access at that point. I was hoping it was an automated process, which it apperantly wasn't lol
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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I don't want to get bogged down on tech issues now, but will look into these.
We all use the same software.
One big problem about switching is moving the database/archives. We could switch tomorrow if we wanted to start over. But there's a lot of good info in there that would also save a lot of dupe posts if we had a decent search engine.
We are working on using Google custom search for the site. We've tested it and finally anything on fhb.com shows up.
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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"Some ideas kicking around are giving people blogs on FHB.com, creating an ask the experts panel, and a few others with legs. I'm also open to suggestions."
Well JP, I already have you covered. If you check out Breaktime post number 94969.1 you'll see it already has been done and for a lifetime subscription to FineHomebuilding I'll let you use it.
heh heh
snorK*
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ CAGIV -- I have no idea, this software has a mind of it's own.
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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.in fact, we have no idea how people get there"
Think about it. People normaly go to the web for information. A guy has a problem in the trades or with his house. He hears through word of mouth about how there is a bunch of guys on Breaktime who know practically everything there is to kow (collectively) about building...
All you have to do is ask and walla the answer appears for you.
They like, they buy mags
What do they like?.......US! They like us cause we are smart and we are strong and we are pretty.
We are good for you guys....I don't understand why you treat us so poorly.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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I think the guest status was just to do with posting. No longer able to post as a guest-you could still read........but then again, I wasn't a guest. I've sent links to folks and I believe they read w/o registering.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I'll play -
Why is a "complaint" given more weight than a post? - A series of posts? - A long term record and history of posts? - A relationship between the host, the poster, and the recipient of the information?
A newbie bitch can log in, decide to be offended, complain about someone who has supported your forum and it's members for years, and be taken at face value that there was actually an issue?
--------------------
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Vince
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 7
Loc: NY
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Rez,
Don't hold you breath for a free subscription,
If I remember correctly all of us at North Fest were going to be given one,never happened.
Vince Carbone subcsriber to FHB since 1988,didn't renew for 2008.
--------------------
Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin NY
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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I want to make sure I get this in b/4 you keel over from the beer or the questions.
Thank you very much for coming over here and taking the hotseat in this discussion.
Honorable thing to do and I for one appreciate it.
Didn't like the silent treatment for the last couple weeks, but this is big step up.
Thanks. 
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ polcat -- that was sort of tongue in cheek -- not to be too big brother, but we do know how you came (technically).
RE: treated poorly -- how was anyone treated poorly before the big boot?
Further, since we are talking, if anyone wants to know why they were either given read-only access or booted, email me and I'm respond. But don't expect immediate answers, as I get a lot of other email and have to pull your file (j/k).
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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What happened to Robyn? She had jumped in and let a warning out on the rare time it was getting raucous, I know you all can't read every post, but just a little face time once in awhile, tends to keep the order in the court of jesters.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Ditto Cal's appreciation.
But you got alotta hill to climb.
--------------------
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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Why was there no communication with the bannees or those that were booted?
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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Oh, Hi Vince.
I think I said everyone could get an online comp sub. If that never happened, then just email me and I'll make good. I think the offer was for the first 25 people.
I can't do the free print thing, different budget and all that. Plus free print subs are watched closely.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ JHOLE -- I don't quite understand the question/relationship between you are asking.
But as best I understand it, posts can go on and on and no one notices. But when someone (especially several someones for the same post) report a violation, the item goes to customer service. As I stated before, the number of complaints during the month before the election was out of control.
@ calvin. thanks, I have a case of very cold beer in the garage, and I might need another.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@spheramid -- Robyn's still around.
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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how was anyone treated poorly before the big boot?
I think things were ok before the pogram....I honestly don't blame you guys for what you did...especially when the people complaining were us complaining against others .......
man I would have done a lot worse, believe me, but I would have done it up front......
I woould have told where when and why......
this wishy washy is what pisses most of the , well me off. I knew we were testing the waters with all the politico stuff, but.............anyways that's why you have to keep constant control of your kids.........or pretty soon they will role change on you.
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john7g
Reged: Mar 29 2008
Posts: 15
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So why you opening up now? Why not earlier? Why at all?
And why here?
Why not in your own domain of BT? (the biggest question of them all for me)
I'm glad it is the real JP and a prank like I init thought but seems more questions are being created than answered.
I gotta tune back in tomorrow. Got an early wake-up in the AM.
7g
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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Sounds like a good idea might be to get rid of the report violations button.
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Vince
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 7
Loc: NY
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JP,
online is correct, wouldn't expect a free print sub.
--------------------
Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin NY
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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Jeezus, I missed a golden opportunity here. Shoulda charged a buck a head-could have kept this board up for a couple months.
But since I missed that one-here's one. The Auction for Boss Hoggs Craftsman Rabbit Plane, Hecks Brand New 4' FATMAX level w/case, Tim's hand smithed bottle opener is going on in the Auction Thread over there next door. End of auction is this FRIDAY. Current bid for the lot-60.01
And JP, how bout donating something for another auction? What the hell-good will and all. Either something from the closet, the tool test area, crap under Irontons desk or one of those online subs?
There, done.
thanks for the commercial break.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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Heck I agree 100% with that. I am more pissed at those guys than JP here.
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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Kind of need to hit the hay myself. Feel free to keep posting questions and I'll pick up later.
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BillHartmann
Reged: Nov 20 2008
Posts: 35
Loc: Kansas City, MO
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"RE: treated poorly -- how was anyone treated poorly before the big boot? "
For a start not telling people that they where banned.
But rather directing them to a system error message.
"There was a problem with this page. Please try again."
That tells them to try and try and try again when you know that it won't work.
--------------------
William the Geezer, sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ calvin -- sure, I'll ask Fink. I know we have a boatload of 16 gauge nailers.
I would have started this thread on BT if I knew it would draw so much traffic. Lots of ad impressions :-)
Actually, in the big picture, even the Tavern doesn't make a dent in page views and ad impressions.
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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Is that it? Meeting over? man, I'm just getting started.......
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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how long do you guys keep at this already? I can stay until 11 EST.
After that, wife might think I've found someone online :-)
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2363
Loc: NW Ohio
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Again, you're doing good. Thanks.
And tell justin I can keep this donation on the sly. No one will know where it came from.
Don't want any ill will and all that.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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So what was the reasons for censoring a certain amount of words on BT, but not on Cookstalk, Knots, etc.
Why the censorship in the first place, and why only the builders?
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FHBWEB
Reged: Dec 02 2008
Posts: 36
Loc: Newtown, CT
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@ heck -- I answered this for someone today -- We use a file of George Carlin's 7 dirty words and some others. My guess is that the other boards have a different file.
that;s all, nothing magic.
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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Here's what I would like. A simple statement of declaration.
Like OK we're gonna start over....or
OK lookit you guys are bums you are toast, get over it.
Or Man this ain't in my job description I don't know what the hell to do........let's get together and figure it out.
Or like my froend Rodney said :"Can't we all just get along?"
Whatever you are no longer an enemy, I been kicked out of real taverns in a far more sinister way.......but man I just gotta say "JP YOU HURT MY FEELINGS".....Beat me, kick me, but dear God don't ignore me!
HA! Good night.......whatever you do watch your ass I don't want to see you get in trouble at work.........
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Capn_Mac
Reged: Apr 16 2004
Posts: 21
Loc: Bryan, texas
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Quote:
Some ideas kicking around are giving people blogs on FHB.com, creating an ask the experts panel, and a few others with legs. I'm also open to suggestions.
Might want to ttread there with caution. So far, I've found little to recommend the existing blogs. It probably does not help that my first impressions were ot a THOM-like being "talked at" rather that "talked to" sort of thing.
The great strength of BT, more so than Knots or Over the fence, or CT, is in the great diversity of people freely engaging in knowledge sharing; which also includes a certain amount of bias sharing, as well.
BT has always seemed to have the widest range of people within it, which is reflected in the metrics of the forum, which would be the envy of most fora, let alone specialty fora.
The Tavern has always been a place for esoterica; questions on computers, guns, recipes, Birthdays, all sorts of things. To me, it has been a place of great comardery.
--------------------
Standing watch even while sitting behind a desk (or desks)
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BillHartmann
Reged: Nov 20 2008
Posts: 35
Loc: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
@ heck -- I answered this for someone today -- We use a file of George Carlin's 7 dirty words and some others. My guess is that the other boards have a different file.
that;s all, nothing magic.
There is lot more than just the 7 words. Simple things like XXX.
And it does not just look for WORDS, but also will blank out if it happens to see matching string of letters in an URL.
--------------------
William the Geezer, sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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What I gathered from all JP said last was that a lot of the problem with the Tavern was the complaining. Infighting and all that crap.
This is instinctively distasteful to everybody save the busybody who in all their self righteous glory feel themselves to be doing everybody a huge favor.
A few of them I know, but a lot of them I believe, are guys who are too limp wristed to actually engage so they lurk in the corner and judge. I would kill the complaint button first thing.
People gotta realize that complaining gets on peoples nerves, but I don't know how to do that. I used to just fire a dude who was always bitching and complaining cause it was bad for morale.
I would be more upfront (if I was in charge) for another. Not that Bossy "do as I say or else",bullshit either.
A leader can throw around a whole lot of authority with very little collateral damage if he's smart.
I personally give JP credit for showing up and saved the tough questions cause there is a certain amount of face saving that must go on in order to have open dialog.....
A lot of us know this. You don't start arguing over the color of the kitchen before the foundation has been laid.
Right now the foundation has been ripped apart at Breaktime and it may be that JP is trying to clear the waters and help rebuild it.
I'd say remain courteous and give him a bit of leeway to save face and do his thing. You guys may just get your Tavern back.
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JohnT8
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 5
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Yeah, I don't see how they will make it Google-searchable since it has gone private. Early on I would send friends/family links to specific threads that I thought would interest them. But then it went private and everyone had to sign in to see anything. I don't think that your average Google searcher is going to create a sign on just on the offhand chance that maybe that Google hit might have useful information.
I realize they were trying to keep better track of who was coming and going, but IMHO it was better as a public forum that only required you to sign in if you wanted to post.
jt8
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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There is very good reason I stepped up to say what I did.
You call my doing so, bullshit.
You said I should not say such things. I should just treat people like adults. People will self-regulate.
Well, I say THAT is bullshit.
The result of treating people like adults and expecting them to self-regulate, is what caused this whole mess in the first place.
It has been consistantly and constantly proven that people do NOT self-regulate. People have consistantly and constantly acted like children whether they are treated like adults or not.
Actually I should qualify that. It is not intended to be a sweeping statement. Those who do act like adults are very much in the majority. But those who act like children are a very vocal and very destructive minority. And unfortunately, just as their behaviour affects everyone, the necessity to regulate their behaviour also affects everyone.
When everyone start consistantly and constantly acting like adults, and self-regulating... Then I will no longer feel the need to step in at the beginning of such threads as this one, and remind people that if they cross the line, they are out of here.
Fact is, most here DO self-regulate. It's the few who chafe under any authority whatsoever, the few who think they have some sort of innate human right to act any way, and to say anything they damn well please... who make it bad for everyone else.
And it is those few, who make it necessary for me to say what should not need to be said.
Bottom line, you want me to treat you like an adult, then you give me as much history, and more... of people ACTING like an adult, under any and all circumstances.... as I have been given, of people acting like children no matter how they are treated.
That said... You chafe, because you resent being told to act like an adult.
Yet, anyone who has not been acting childish... has also not been offended at my need to step in and remind people to keep it civil.
You see how that works ? As adults, they understand that I am not lecturing them, I am not pointing the finger at them. I am not flouting authority.
They understand that I am simply reminding those who DO act like children, that childish behaviour will not be tolerated in this thread.
If you don't act like a child, then the admonition doesn't apply to you. What difference then, whether I say it or not ?
--------------------
Janitor
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Rhode Island
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from what i understand thru the grapevine.... there was a posse of conservatives ( all friends of mine ) who took it on themselves to run out several people that they didn't like...
they continuosly complained to the modes
when some of their liberal targets got wind of this.... they formed a liberal counterterrorist group ( another posse ) and they started emailing the mods...
the end result was exasperation on Taunton's part and they all got the axe
except for one or two !!!! or 3 or 4 !!!!
so.... those that complained know who they are ( and i don't kknow all who were involved ).. and some are still here
it was really pretty childish...
i would like to state that i have never emailed the mods about anything that i can remember.. and certainly not to complain about someone's post
but this was a campaign to run off other posters... and it was responded to by the other side and it backfired
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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So...that explains BobWalker and boobys. Where does that leave the rest of us? 
Lefty-Itching to Do Battle with Hussein's Home's Association
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Vince
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 7
Loc: NY
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Jeff,
a calm, measured responce,makes sence to me,Feeling very adult now .
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Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin NY
Edited by Vince (Thu Dec 04 2008 09:07 AM)
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Vince
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 7
Loc: NY
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I knew it was them(liberals,conservatives)
What we need is more moderates,middle of the road guys, like Mike and me
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Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin NY
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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bwah...ha..ha...ha....Vince and Mike middle of the road? What's that make bobbys and RJW?
Lefty-So Middle of the Road His Name is Stripe
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bobby
Reged: Nov 21 2008
Posts: 31
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I think i was shot and left for dead in no mans land, I only made 2 complaints ever, One for someone calling me a perv and 678 others for people saying Anns not purty 
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Mike,
That was undoubtedly part of the problem. JP's email box was apparently constantly full. How can you NOT notice that, when it is your responsibility to deal with it ?
And I am sure it was the cause of great frustration. Which added to, and might have led to a more harsh reaction to, the real problem.
The real problem being the way the tavern got, there at the end.
You said in the tavern thread here at QT, and I agree... I don't understand how ANYone can think that sort of behaviour was/is acceptable.
My hopes...
I hope the majority of those booted, are let back in.
I hope that some of those booted, stay booted.
I would like to see a tavern that is accessible by all. I think that is a good idea. And the only way that can happen is if those who created the problems in the first place, are not allowed to create the problems again.
I like JP's suggestion that people be given a warning, or the boot. Period.
I think that should be applied constistantly, and quickly.
Explanations of 'offenses'... This is another part of why the email boxes were overflowing.
A warning, is enough of an explanation. The person given the warning knows.
No public explanation is necessary. Though sometimes is warranted.
Lookit, one of the biggest frustrations to being a mod there... Once in a blue moon, when someone is told of their offense, they accept it, and go on with life.
All the rest of the time, if an explanation is given, there is this blizzard created, of emails and posts, public and private, in which every person and their plumber has to pick at this word, poke at that nit, tell everyone how they do or do not agree with either nit or word, choose sides, take up arms, call it unfair, whatever....
Aaaarghh !!! Act like adults.
If you are told that you crossed the line, spend your energy figuring out how you got there. Not defending your right to be there.
And it isn't everyone else in the forum universe's business whether they think it was 'fair' or whether they agree with it, etc...
It's good that the offense be generally known, so others do not do the same. But it never stops at that. It always has to be this big frikken debate that turns to war and a climb to the ramparts ! No matter how vile or innocuous the offense. Every time !
Were I them, I would have stopped giving explanations long ago. Other than to write up a few standard emails saying something about the person was banned for breaking the rules, or this is a warning, stop pushing the lines. Etc.
Anyone smart enough to post, is smart enough to figure out what it was they posted, that caused them to get the warning or the ban.
The most that should happen at that point, if they truly can't figure it out, is to give them reference to the post that caused the warning. Once you know the post... rub a couple brain cells together and figure it out for yourself. Don't expect to be bottle fed and have every frikken word explained twelve different ways...
If you told someone to go shoot themselves in a post... You are given a reference to that post... And you can't figure out that telling someone to go shoot themselves is not acceptable behaviour, then you don't belong in the community.
If you immediately climb to the ramparts to say telling them to go shoot themselves was not so bad, you should be allowed to say that, it was just an opinion, they deserved it, they should be adult enough to ignore the statement, etc.. then you do not belong in the community. (I do agree that they should be adult enough to ignore the statement. And you should be adult enough not to MAKE the statement.)
In this example... NOT telling someone to go shoot themselves, is part and parcel to being a member of the community. If you don't like that, and/or you don't like being told you can't say that, then you don't like being a part of the community, and you don't belong.
And if a warning isn't enough, you deserve the ban.
Edited because I am too much of an idiot to figure out UBB code, the first time through. LOL
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Janitor
Edited by Luka (Thu Dec 04 2008 09:48 AM)
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Vince,
Point taken.
I need to learn 'calm and measured'.
I think I have a long way to go, to get there.
I probably make things worse with my responses, quite often.
I just wish there were no need for the response in the first place.
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Janitor
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Vince
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 7
Loc: NY
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Here's some more moderates
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Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin NY
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Vince
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 7
Loc: NY
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Jeff,
I really did think your responce was calm and measured,guess that shows how far you can go with me.
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Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin NY
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dirtyturk
Reged: Nov 13 2008
Posts: 4
Loc: NorthEast Ohio
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Ahh, yes, the passions do run high for those who drink too much.
You guys are a great entertainment! I'm reading the posts and comments and responses and complaining and was thinking that this is the very reason I walked in this bar.
Food ain't that good, beer costs too much (b'tender can't even spell Skotch), place smells like old roofin shingles but the entertainment is priceless.
ciao, ted
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Where's the followup picture ?
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Janitor
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Ah yes.
Orange juice and hot chocolate do tend to loosen people's tounges.
What's the point of your post other than to say that you like to see people upset ? (And to try to bait some, into getting so...)
You think that is an admirable quality in yourself ?
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Janitor
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Vince
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 7
Loc: NY
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Don't have any other but the one I attached.
you should though, if I remember correctly you created them.
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Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin NY
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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I do try to be that way. Whether it shows or not.
I just don't think I succeed as well as I wish I could.
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Janitor
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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I thought you was booted for thinking like a perv since Ann is pre op transexual kind of purty?
Lefty-Stickin' Up for Fellow Eyetalian 'Mericans
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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It'll take me a whileto find them.
When I do, I'll post both in the funny pics thread.
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Janitor
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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My question for you is.....How do you decided to let back in and who is going to stay booted?
AFAIK my offense and that of CAGIV's was to complain about unfair treatment or to ask where everybody was.
I think JP was just kidding when he said that he could pull the file and see what the offense was.....
but like I said who makes the call.
As a pedophile and wife beater I know my chances are slim but.... 
Lefty-Pondering my new life as Rover SuSuede
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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How would I decide ?
You want it spelled out for you. ABCD, 1234.
Then you'll choke on this gnat, whine about that nit, and call the whole thing entirely unfair.
If you want to know how I would decide... read the posts I have made in just this thread alone.
If you can't figure it out from that, then good luck to you...
Quote:
As a pedophile and wife beater I know my chances are slim but....
No. IF your chances are slim, it is because of what drives you to keep harping on, when you have been told to stop it because you are acting like a child.
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Janitor
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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Far as I know I never said it was unfair, but if you say so...it must be. I'm just wondering if saying bite me is ok , but saying there will be more abortions under Obama is not ok.
Just trying to figger out what the standard is, that's all.
Guess I'll just sit go in the corner and shut up. I'll try not to laugh at anymore bobbys jokes since that not cool anymore.
BTW You must amissed the smiley after pedophile and wife beater, necessary these days due to the impaired sense of humor going around ....
Guess we gotta start with <<<jokes follows>>> then....<<<end Joke>>>
Lefty-Going on Silent Strike
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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I have neither the time nor the inclination to continue to participate in never-ending childishness.
Go sit in the corner if you wish.
Blame it on me, if you wish.
Just do it in another thread.
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Janitor
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dirtyturk
Reged: Nov 13 2008
Posts: 4
Loc: NorthEast Ohio
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I've got more than a handfull of admirable qualities but trying to stir up trouble is neither admirable nor correct.
If you think that the purpose of my post was to stir up that pot then you were mistaken. My intention was to let you folks know I was here...that's it! I'm not going to apologize for that.
I don't get any manpoints by eggin people into angrier comments or rebuttals. There are plenty of folks here abouts who know which hot buttons to hit and how hard, you/they don't need me for that.
Gotta get back to work.
ted
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1163
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Then you, sir, have my most abject apologies.
I was indeed mistaken.
I hope you will accept my apology.
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Janitor
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polcat11
Reged: Dec 03 2008
Posts: 23
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People will self-regulate.
Well, I say THAT is bullshit........
Ok this is where we differ....
I believe if you run a tight ship, everybody knows it. In business or in your home.
Now if I allow an employee to get away with murder and only try to correct him when he gets really bad he's going to act up one day in front of the HO and embarrass the hell out of me, or he's gonna goof off till he hurts someone.
Regardless he's definitely going to cost me time and money.
The guys in the tavern pushed the limits, they pressed against the fence till the fence broke. Then the farmer came in with a shotgun and butchered a bunch of them.
It never had to be that way. Better fence building, proper leadership and discipline would have alleviated most, if not all, this kind of bullshit.
I believe in that. I don't believe in over the top threats and ominous warnings. That is the third time I have read you doing so.
There is, of course, the occassional guy who is what you seem to think everybody is. His fellows, if they are disciplined will get him in line soon enough. Only the worst (and the constant complainers) deserve to be shot.
Men can self regulate. Do you think those guys were civil last night because they read your diatribe?....or because they realized it is smart to be civil in a meeting or a negotiation?
I will be gone from your forum as soon as JP is so no need to say much else. Just trying to help you out a bit.
Cause brother, you may have the wand in your hand, but you are still a part of the orchestra.
The guys last night were quite reserved and listened to JP even when he didn't especially give them what they wanted.
Just an opinion from a happy home builder.
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