**DONOTDELETE**
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Hello everyone,
I am finishing Cherry doors for a kitchen and want to give them a uniform look but want the cherry to still age naturally. Normally spray with a lacquer but am wondering about alcohol stain? What is it? Is it appropriate? What are it's limitations... all that stuff. Any other products, techniques or suggestions?
Thank you,
Eliza Williams
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Sgian_Dubh
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 22
Loc: Great Britain
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Well, I know this is the same answer I gave you over at Knots, but I'll post it anyway. Not every visitor here visits Knots, and it might draw useful additional useful comment from others that drop into this place. Slainte, RJ.
"Hard to give you a potted answer in a few sentences, but reluctant as I am generally to colour cherry prior to polishing, I think my approach would be to start with a very thinned out shellac. Zinsser now sell stuff called SealCoat which I'm currently experimenting with for the first time. It's a dewaxed shellac designed in large part to act as a primer under any other film finish, i.e., oil varnish, water varnish, any of the nitrocellulose family, and, er, shellac, and any I've missed. Anyway, thin it out about 50% or more with alcohol-- its solvent-- and apply it lightly as a 'wash' coat.. It can be sprayed, ragged or brushed this thin. You just want it strong enough to partially form a film. De-nib with abrasive paper and apply a fairly weak dye to get a background colour. The pre applied thin shellac will reduce effective absorption of the dye thus reducing the chance of blotching, and it will help to even out the existing colour variations. Next you apply a tinted polish which is akin to thin paint. Tint the polish with either universal tinting colours (UTC's) soluble in any medium, or use alcohol (spirit) dyes in oil varnish, nitrocellulose type finishes or in shellac. Polish suppliers sell ready dissolved stain concentrate too that can be used, often sold as NGR (Non Grain Raising) stains. A little goes a long way when used to tint polish. Successive coats of tinted polish build up colour,and also occlude the grain more and more as additional coats are applied. Incidentally, you can only apply about three coats of pre-catalysed lacquer before you start running into the chinese writing fault, so beware on that score--- 5 mils or less is the recommended final film thickness.
I'd really need to see the job and fully understand what effect you are looking for before I could give a good opinion here, but the above might help at least generate some more contributions, and get you experimenting in the right direction.
Alcohol dye or stain is a colouring agent soluble in that medium. Dyes dry clear and do not occlude the grain. Most dyes are usually known generically as 'aniline' dyes, although many are not now derived from the actual coal source. Stains contain pigments that do hide the grain, and the pigments lodge in the open grain/ pores of open pored/grain timber, such as ash oak, mahogany, walnut, etc.. All these colouring agents are mostly available soluble in oil, i.e., white (US mineral) spirits, alcohol or water."
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www.richardjonesfurniture.com
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Lee_Grindinger
Reged: Apr 28 2002
Posts: 36
Loc: Montana, USA
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The alcohol stain you're talking about is aniline dye. Aniline dyes are the alcohol soluable stains. You can buy the dyes in powdered form and work on scraps until you find one you like.
Yup, aniline is appropriate for cherry and you'll get a small amount of uniforming if you apply the dye evenly but it will be small.
Uniforming is generally a process done with glazing. Glazing is applied after a sealer coat is more akin to paint that stain. Actually it's a mostly transparent coloring that sticks to the sealer and can be applied in varying degrees to uniform the wood underneath.
Does sapwood show in your doors? Is this the reason you're looking for color? Cherry will age beautifully on it's own. Six months will show dramatic darkening and a year will pretty much complete the process. Any coloration underneath will affect the natural color of the aged wood but if you really need something now aniline is the best appraoch. If you're trying to make sapwood (the really white wood) look like heartwood you'll need to experiment.
Lee
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Sgian_Dubh
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 22
Loc: Great Britain
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Stop looking over my shoulder Grindinger, ha, ha. Slainte, RJ.
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www.richardjonesfurniture.com
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Lee_Grindinger
Reged: Apr 28 2002
Posts: 36
Loc: Montana, USA
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By two minutes, sheesh, I need those typing lessons!
Lee
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markcadioli
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1405
Loc: Australia
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ROFL!!!
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**DONOTDELETE**
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Thanks you guys. Between this forum, Breaktime and Knots, I've got quite a few options and I hope enough scrap wood!
Eliza
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goldhiller
Reged: Jul 21 2002
Posts: 2
Loc: Illinois USA
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elizawilliams,
Bear in mind that alcohol soluble aniline dyes are not very colorfast. They will fade. If you decide to go the dye route, and don't want the color to subside, then I would recommend that you choose a water soluble aniline dye. These dyes are available from the WD Lockwood Company.
There are ways of accelerating to that aged color in cherry other than staining or dyeing in an attempt to get it. That rich color/patina that you desire is the result of oxidation and exposure to UV rays. When you apply a finish to your freshly sanded cherry, you are actually confounding your desire for "that" color because you are greatly slowing the naturally occurring process with your finish. If you simply expose the cherry unfinished to sunlight, the process will take place in much shorter order. A week or two in the sun will do miraculous things for that wood. I realize that you are dealing with cabinet doors and so the potential for warping to develop cannot be forgotten. You must tend to the doors, rotating their sides every couple of hours if you are exposing them to bright, hot sunlight.
Alternately, you can acheive the same effect indoors by using a sun tanning lamp on them. It will take more hours of exposure to get the same effect, but it's much less demanding on your rotating schedule, so that it doesn't interfere as much with the rest of your life.
When the cherry is darken enough to suit, I clear finish it.
I've used both of these processes regularly for years when preparing furniture pieces for show and sale. It greatly reduces the time, effort, and material costs required to make those pieces look their best. I just set them outside the shop, if possible, and break every couple of hours to go out and turn them. Takes five minutes. If you're really lucky, you may have a space available with enough large windows that will enable you to do this without ever taking them outside.
This process won't make those sap streaks disappear, so you're still in for some coloring if you need to do that. If I'm building a piece that must match a particular color or an existing piece in the client's home, I too must color.
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