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LukaAdministrator



Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
Your opinion, is this crap ?
      #5159 - Wed Feb 12 2003 08:46 PM

I just got a notice in the mail, from my bank.

Overdraft.

I'm not quite sure how all this goes, but I'll try to explain it.

It looks like there was a charge to the account for 40 dollars and eighty cents. I don't remember any such charge, but we'll let that slide for now.

That apparently was an overdraft. An overdraft fee of 25 dollars was applied. Shows an ending balance of negative 47.31.

Now I have to go to the bank and get this all straightened out. The numbers just don't make sense.

The real crap part..........

I do not have checks. I do not write checks. I strictly use the debit card.

All debit transactions are instantaneous. The bank HAS to be contacted by the machine taking the card, and a query HAS to be made about whether there is enough in the account or not.

HOW the heck can an overdraft be made ?

Totaly aside from the fact that I keep careful track, and I know dam sure that I did not overdraft... How in heck can they do an overdraft, when it is an electronic transaction ? Either the money is there, or it is not. The bank sure as heck knows whether it is or not. Why would the bank's machine tell the store's machine that the money was there, if it wasn't, and then charge me an overdraft ???




--------------------
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson


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calvinAdministrator



Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
Re: Your opinion, is this bullshit ? [Re: Luka]
      #5162 - Wed Feb 12 2003 09:01 PM

Luka, my daughter had her purse stolen and in it a debit card. The thieves charged about 1800.00 on it, and for each transaction the card worked, no stop pmt due to lack of funds. Our bank luckily credited all the nsf charges and hopefully won in arbitration with those that claimed money on the charges.......they didn't have any valid I D presented when the charges were made. In your case, you should hope for a mistake on their part, if you in fact charged more than what was in the acct, you could be S O L. Best of luck.

--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City

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TLE



Reged: Apr 30 2002
Posts: 142
Loc: Southern Michigan
Re: Your opinion, is this bullshit ? [Re: Luka]
      #5163 - Wed Feb 12 2003 09:02 PM

Using a debit card does not directly access your account.
It just sends an order to your bank demanding payment.
The advantage of the debit card (to the bank and merchant) is the time saved over regular check clearing.

Same as how you can have an overdraft with a credit card.

And yes, overdraft charges are way out of line.

Terry


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JohnD



Reged: Oct 21 2002
Posts: 46
Loc: Chicago Suburbs
Re: Your opinion, is this bullshit ? [Re: TLE]
      #5171 - Thu Feb 13 2003 12:29 PM

And further, if you read the contract for your debit card, you will find out that the bank will allow you to incur an overdraft. Why? Well, you just found out: they get to charge you overdraft fees!!

There is a fuss going on about exactly that legal scam. Congress is being asked to consider that fee as an interest charge, and make it comparable to credit card charges on the unpaid balance, which are high enough.

You would think that the banks would realize that they could make more money by not irritating people as badly as they do with those fees, but those $$$$$ sure are tempting in the short term.


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mr_pita



Reged: Feb 15 2003
Posts: 3
Loc: Philly, PA
Re: Your opinion, is this crap ? [Re: Luka]
      #5244 - Sat Feb 15 2003 09:58 PM

Hey Luka, long time no see/talk/post/whatever.
(And, my first post here at QT)

I now primarily use the debit card instead of checks, and yes, I've had overdrafts as well. As explained to me by the bank, but in my words:
The machine at the register will query your account, to see if funds are available. But, it's a snapshot of what's in your account then, not taking into account what might yet be taken out. The transactions themselves actually take 1, 3 or more days to reach the bank and truly deduct funds from the account.

Say you have $100 in the bank. On Monday, you go buy $82.00 worth of materials. On Tuesday, you buy $40.80 worth of tools. Banks still shows $100, because the materials transaction hasn't cleared. The machine says "Sure, he's good for it. APPROVED." Wednesday, the materials transaction clears, you're down to $18. Thursday, the tools transaction comes in, your account can't cover. Start balance ($18) minus NSF ($25) minus overdraft(40.80) = Your $-47.80 balance. (One interesting point, they will typically take the NSF from your account before they take the actual transaction amount.)

Check card/debit card transactions may not immediately register a change in balance. If paying through "credit", really using Visa to draw straight from my checking account and my signature, the balance is unaffected. But if using "debit", where I enter my ATM PIN, say for the materials above, my bank account will read "Balance $100, available balance $18".

Sean
aka mr_pita

--------------------
If everything seems to be going well, you've obvioulsy overlooked something.


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markcadioliAdministrator



Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1405
Loc: Australia
Re: Your opinion, is this crap ? [Re: mr_pita]
      #5245 - Sun Feb 16 2003 12:25 AM

Sean

Welcome to QT. Were your ears burning today? I was talking to Jim Blodgett and we got onto the subject of Biscuit Jointers. He said he doesn't use one anymore, in fact sold his to you! ( also said any guy who would admit on the internet that his wife gave him the name Mr.Pita is a straight up kinda guy )


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Pro_Dek



Reged: May 01 2002
Posts: 533
Loc: Seattle
Re: Your opinion, is this crap ? [Re: mr_pita]
      #5246 - Sun Feb 16 2003 12:27 AM

Hey Mr. Pita- Welcome, still using that #18 Stanley bevel? good to see you posting here. I hope all is well with you and yours.

--------------------
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"



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LukaAdministrator



Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
My own fault [Re: mr_pita]
      #5249 - Sun Feb 16 2003 05:07 AM

Hey PITA !! How are you ?? Good to see you here. Welcome !!



Yup, not too long after this, I figured out the numbers did jive. Then, not long after that, (after MUCH frantic searching...), I found a rustypete for 40.80

Since it became clear that it obviously was my fault, I didn't even call or go into the bank. They have the right to charge anything they want, (within reason), as overdraft charge. So I can't contest that either.

And I was too embarrassed to just come in here straightaway and admit it. LOL

...

As I understand it, a few years ago, some banks in this area were called on the legal carpet for the way they handled the whole overdraft thing. They did it to maximize the possibility of overdraft charges.

Seems they would hold all charges to the account for as long as possible, instead of applying the transaction to the account as soon as it was recieved by them. (This point alone, got the atty gnl involved. Then they found the rest of the stuff they found.)

Then, they would selectively apply the charges. Applying the largest ones first. At the point where a charge would overdraw the account, they would, as you say, apply the overdraft charge first, before applying the transaction amount. This would, in turn, possibly cause other overdrafts, since the account was now effectively empty and already overdrawn. Leaving the smallest ones for last, meant a better possibility of several more overdraft charges for several more small transactions, rather than just one more charge for just one more, large transaction.

Also, at the point where the account was getting low... If they had other, (sundry), charges to apply, (not an overdraft charge), they would apply them.

...At the point where they would then overdraft the account.

Then they would start charging overdraft charges for everything else after that. (Even though the transactions could have been submitted days before the sundry charges were made.) Anything at all, to juggle the numbers and intentionaly cause as many overdraft charges as possible.

...

Maybe they are trying to re-implement this sort of business ?

...

I don't have credit on my account. Only debit.

I do understand that this is the way it works...

But my contention now is that it SHOULD work differently. It should immediately charge the account, not wait days. And/or it should, on any subsequent transaction, do as you pointed out... say, balance 100 dollars... available balance, 18 dollars...

It DOES query the account at the bank, to see if you have the money. If it is not going to immediately charge the account, it should at least keep track of what has gone before, and give a statement of the second sort.



--------------------
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson


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mr_pita



Reged: Feb 15 2003
Posts: 3
Loc: Philly, PA
Re: My own fault [Re: Luka]
      #5283 - Sun Feb 16 2003 12:23 PM

(Hi everyone! Yeah, I'm doing OK. Recently unemployed, so I'm sucking at the state's teat. But it pays the bills, and I can't complain.)

Agree wholeheartedly. Another interesting point about banks juggling the numbers. I usually have had direct deposit, into a credit union, along with a few friends, who had different CUs. Friends had direct deposit, to a regular bank. All these friends worked at the same companies, so we all had nominally the same payday. I and my "CU friends" invariably were "paid" up to two business days before the bank friends were, that is the money showed up in our accounts before theirs did. We knew that the company was transmitting the payments at the same time, so it had to be the banks.

Some places, I was on a schedule, 15th and last business day were paydays. If 15th was Friday, the company transmits Thurs. afternoon, that's when I was paid (at 5PM). Bank friends didn't see money until Friday at 9AM. If 15th was Monday, company still tranmitted the previous Thurs., and I was paid at about 5 PM on the 11th. Bank friends were paid the 15th at 9AM.

We figured the banks would hold the direct deposits, until the day they were supposed to be deposited, and just skinned the interest off of those funds until they had to release them to the account holders. If most companies transmit early, and the banks do this to everyone, that's $Millions in frre money to make interest on.

--------------------
If everything seems to be going well, you've obvioulsy overlooked something.


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