JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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If you happen to not be able to get into the tavern ( or Breaktime for some of us) Check in here and check back to find out what's up.....
I have no information other than being blocked a couple weeks ago under the JHOLE screenname from everything. I just get a blank screen with " Page doesn't work. Try again"
I can get into Breaktime with mhole.
Hard to come up with a full list of who's out and to what degree.
Noone seems to know what the deal is, but it may help if you at least check in and let the status of your screenname known.
I have some ideas but aint gonna go into it yet.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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I'll reply that the situation over at BT is one poorly thoughtout, juvenile, and backward. There's always been flame wars and lately certainly is not an exception. What gets me is prior to the recent Saturday (or Tuesday) nite massacre, there's been no real reading with comprehension done by the moderators.
There's been bad word get arounds where you change letters to apostrophe's etc so it looks the same. The old XXXX evidently wasn't enough impact for some people. Now I know here if someone trys a spelling get-around we'd (I) maybe delete the post and probably email the poster about why. Keep it up and I might be able to get help and figure a way to ban your usage-certainly couldn't do it with my internet talents.
But use the ever popular XXXX-hell I do it now on here and BT. I guess to the purest-there's no difference. But to me- #%!&*^$ , seems just different enough.
Back to the BT situation. I think we all agree that there's some who were kicked off that no one who's been around for just a bit of time wouldn't say "are you kidding me?" These are regulars of some pretty consistant stature. If they crossed the line (which I doubt) then delete the post-email 'em an explanation and be done with it.
It seems as though (to me) there's very little thought gone into this.
But you know I'm just a dumb carpenter.
edit: I see here we use the ever popular SIGNS ABOVE THE NUMBERS ON THE KEYBOARD instead of the foul words.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
Edited by calvin (Sat Nov 08 2008 08:08 PM)
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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No doubt I'm outa there.
I was apparently banned on Thursday. I assume it was either for saying "Bite me" or for using the word "bullsh!t".
I emailed folks at Taunton twice, but never got an acknowledgement or response. That really pisses me off.
This morning I set up an alternate account called "BossHogLives" and posted a question directed to RDA asking what was going on. That thread was promptly removed, and that profile was banned too.
Someone suggested to me that we try to organize a boycott of BT. I initially thought that was a bad idea. But now I'm thinking it sounds reasonable.
They obvously think very little of us. Why have any respect for them?
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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The boycott if done by everydamnone of the regulars and by that I mean those of us who have a long history right on down to those that show up on occasion with a question, might work to show that the forum is more than just a gift from Taunton. The forum is there, the questions will continue from those that read the mag or somehow stumble on the site. However, if the answers are given by unknowledgable responders, then its value must surely diminish. It would end up a DIY message board.
But, it would have to be pretty substantial-way more than us fest goers and those of you that have been banned.
Organizing it would take a bit of doing, and would the result be one of the magnitude that Taunton would take notice? Beats me. Certainly something to think about.
Pleas for information have thusfar gone unanswered. I can't think of anyone we could call over there to get a straight answer.
I met Kevin Ironton once-maybe I'll give him a call Monday morning. Worst he could do is pass me on to someone that might be able to struggle through an answer.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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I see a boycott as being more of a statement than an effective 'strike' that produces policy changes at BT.
Consider that TPTB may want to run off all the old guard, for reasons unknown to reason.
But a boycott of a predetermined duration may show our great displeasure at the callow treatment shown to those who have helped develop the BT community and make it the draw that it is. A duration of at least two weeks of absolute boycott by those of us who are not banned, then those that wish to return are free to do so. I have no illusion that we can recreate that community here, so there will be many who choose to return to participate in what may be left of a diluted forum. And it will go on without those who choose not to return, be certain of that.
What impact can those who are banned have in this? They certainly can't boycott until they have been readmitted.
I think that many members have been treated very poorly, in a very heavy-handed manner, and they deserve an outlet to express their indignation.
I can do without BT myself, I'm not sure I can do without all the people who make up BT.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Mr Heck-I agree with all you have said. Stepping out with the wife right now so I'll be short.
Folks from BT-feel free-after you register to post-to post your thoughts or to communicate with your fellow BT'ers. There's a member list here that might give you a hint of who's on board. If you direct a message to them-you might get lucky that they'll be notified by this board of that message-stranger things have happened.
Let's keep this boycott thing in discussion.
It worked for Grapes.
Thanks.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Hey I'm in for a boycott. I think it sucks ya'll got das boot.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Edited by Scarecrow (Sat Nov 08 2008 09:19 PM)
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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I think Heck's idea of a 2 week boycott is a good one. I don't know how else we could send a signal to them LEGALLY.
Before we call a strike, I figure we should see how many people support it. There's no sense trying it if only a handful of people will participate.
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catfish
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 1
Loc: Florida Gulf Coast
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Count me in I don't like the way they did it, whether or not it their site.
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Boss, I'm not banned yet. If we get enough for a boycott I'll go in at spead the word in every folder there. I'm sure that after that I will be banned but so what. I'm just looking for good building info when I need it and a debate or two. If this new fern bar has what I'm looking for great.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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The more I hear about all this the more serious the issue becomes,
being at first it went by me with nary a notice, my thinking just another misplaced heavy from a BT mod.
Now having been alerted to the whole procedure and subsequent lack of response from Taunton's powers that be, this has certainly turned into an event that may have serious implications.
In lieu of the BT moderation difficulties and their lack of attentiveness to the issue I think it only proper to speak in unity by a boycott if it is decided that is the course to take.
So you count me in for something must be said in response to this behavior.
Wonder if they would remove their support of Quittin' Time in the event?
Cheers to all.
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Jeff_J_Buck
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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I'm here and out there.
was temp banned for 2 weeks, the was supposed to end Oct 27th. So after asking why I was still on "read only" access, I found myself completely locked out with no additional info.
Jeff J. Buck
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Jeff_J_Buck
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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Hey ... what time zone is this place set to?
I'm 3 hours into the future ...
Jeff
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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It'd be very easy to boycott them and it could be done for weeks on end if we wanted.
All we need are a group of "anonymous volunteers" to go into the profile of everyone on the boards with a letter we compose. Maybe someone like Colleen...Splintergroupie might be the one to write it if she already hasn't been in her head... since she's the wordsmith of the group IMO then we as a group could edit it.
All it would take would be a half dozen people flooding the profile email boxes constantly for several days.
edit: I just emailed a dozen people with this link.
edit: Make that more then three dozen already..gee this'd be easy if people are into it..
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited by ANDYBUILDZ (Sun Nov 09 2008 01:00 AM)
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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"I'm 3 hours into the future ..."
So what does future jeff have to say does the boycott work? 
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Pierre1
Reged: Apr 22 2005
Posts: 13
Loc: British Columbia (Rocky Mounta...
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Jeff, got your notice via my BT profile, and I agree the situation at hand is abusive.
I just posted in PlumbBill's goodbye thread - hard to believe the publisher would give him the heave ho.
As to what happened, to tell the truth I am not up to date with the latest and baddest insults that were traded on the Tavern, nor do I know how many were banned. The last 6 months or so I've only occasionally piped up as I was tired of the relentless "did so - did not" that US election 'discussions' degenerated into.
All this to say that my boycotting BT would not likely be noticed, but out of solidarity with you guys and out of gratitude to those of you who helped me out over the years, I will certainly join the boycott.
If we organize ourselves to use BT profile feature to send discrete notices to those likely to at least not rat on us (as ratting would probably result in BT temporarily disabling the Profile or PM feature). Reaching those who contribute content on technical and business matters would be the best way to make the publisher take notice that, in reality, we are the ones who are providing their HO and DIY readers with a supportive context in which their questions are answered in a competent way. Once the answers stop, the publisher will surely notice. Once the boycott starts, it will probably be best not to monitor the situation from our known names/URL.
Let me know how I can help.
Pierre1
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
I think Heck's idea of a 2 week boycott is a good one. I don't know how else we could send a signal to them LEGALLY.
Before we call a strike, I figure we should see how many people support it. There's no sense trying it if only a handful of people will participate.
Not sure how many people you contacted Ron but I emailed almost 40 people with a link to this thread so time will tell.
Calvin posted it within a thread in BT.
I think the PM's will bring them in a lot more efficiently but what ever it takes works for me..
The whole thing is pretty OFFENSIVE if they wanna talk about being offensive!
I'd say just keep contacting folks....that part sure is easy enough.
Will be interesting to see how many people are into this.
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Hi, Andy. I got your email, so that part works. Put your reading glasses on bec this is one of my trade-mark dissertations that will probably get me banned here, too.
The truth is, i don't think a boycott will work for a variety of reasons:
Many of the posters in the non-Tavern folders don't participate in the Tavern anyway or even resent it. Without their involvement, Taverners' absences wouldn't be noted. Put yourself in their shoes and ask if you'd stop posting to save an off-topic folder that you never post in anyway.
Conversely, many of the more prolific Tavern posters don't post much outside the Tavern, so their presence or absence is immaterial to Taunton.
Thirdly, Taunton uses the website as a vehicle to sell, and they aren't terribly concerned with the quality of information given out as long as potential customers continue to come. Ron's THE go-to guy for truss issues, but that obviously wasn't a consideration.
My particular baggage i bring to such an action is that i got involved in a group effort to make an alternative site to BT when Taunton switched to Prospero. We had a much larger groundswell of political and economic support then and a clear shot at creating something original instead of asking permission to play in someone else's sandbox. For our efforts, Ian and i got a knife in our backs thrown by some of the individuals who created this very site, a pale shadow of what might have been.
Which brings me to my final point about a boycott, that most of those still left inside the Tavern seem to have accepted submission, telling those of us on the outside to bide our time, be sweet, don't rock the boat, keep your fingers crossed, etc. There are others who would be commiting professional suicide to publicly declare support for a boycott even if they agreed with it. If a boycott were to work, it would have to be among all posters, and be a stealth boycott.
BTW, it does not escape my notice whose logo is on the top of the pile on the right side of this page. (Edit: these logos show up only on the post-creation page, but Taunton's logo is at the top.)
I had made a post this morning to the mods saying they were engaged in vandalism of our community, that even though they owned the forum, they had no moral right to kill what we created ourselves. The Tauntonistas have proved themselves to be "community disorganizers" extraordinaire; the whole thread was immediately deleted, not just my post. I think that's a pretty clear signal that those left on the inside are hopelessly optimistic about a rapprochement between management and labor, if you will.
So i wouldn't expect to reach Taunton either with a frontal assault or an appeal to their better natures.
My solution so far has been to defy the bannings by developing new emails and screen names, one after the other as necessary, eliminating all cookies in between them. (The last time i signed up a new name, Taunton placed 24 cookies on my computer before i even posted.)
When i decided what to do about this, i simply looked at the most useful vulnerability Taunton has: they need to register people in order to sell them stuff and that is the Trojan horse we can get in on, even if we get banned. I can't recall how many registrations i went through before i reached stalemate with the mods with the "Tenacious" handle i'm using now to post in threads outside the Tavern. Considering the David/Goliath lack of equivalency in our positions, stalemate is not bad.
With that in mind, recall why the Tavern was developed in the first place.
The only clout we may bring to bear is refusing to be kicked out, then bringing the Tavern to us if we can't go to the Tavern. Taunton will be forced to keep someone constantly vigilant to delete threads and posts by banned people, or they may decide corraling the non-construction stuff in the Tavern isn't such a bad idea after all. That requires only that one become familiar with a number of online free email providers. I'm presently using one called cheerful.com and "giggles" for a P/W, which gives me a perverse sense of Klingon glee vis-a-vis Taunton.
For the life of me, it escapes me why they are so schizophrenic about moderation, with apparently just two settings: OFF and BALLISTIC. Light moderation would be mutually beneficial, but actual adults with healthy egos would have to be hired first.
Sorry to throw water on the parade, Andy. I know how much you want to DO something about it, but what do you think of those caveats i brought up?
Where in the hell is the post button here? Is this it...?
Edited by splintergroupie (Sun Nov 09 2008 01:35 AM)
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Thanks Andy and everyone else.
I e-mailed my butt off by just going through the PM/profile thing over at BT. I am sure that I missed alot of people.
It would seem to me that the first step would be to notify everyone that we can think of. Next, wait for them to come in and find their stances. Then decide the best course of action to take that will come to the most beneficial outcome for all parties involved. NOT JUST FOR THE SHORT TERM, BUT FOR THE CONTINUED MUTUAL BENEFIT OF OUR GROUP, AND WHAT IT HAS TO OFFER,DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY, TO THE HOST'S WELLBEING AND CONTINUED INTERNET PRESENCE WITH ANY SORT OF CREDIBILITY.
I am already half-blocked from any type of interaction on their forum. I can walk away easy. I just feel it is wrong what they are trying to do to a community of some of the best people that I have come across. Disagree or not, I consider my self enriched to have had contact with the overwhelming majority of posters and hate to walk away from them.
Guess we'll see who shows up and how they feel.
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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As I stated in my previous post, I agree that a boycott would not be an effective tool to effect change in the attitudes of the rulers of BT. However, a ceremonial boycott, a protest if you will, may be an avenue to persue to show that a great number of us feel that their approach to moderation is absolutely wrong. It would give those who were treated so unfairly a place and a means to voice their frustration with such an autocratic regime.
You make many valid points about the division between tavernites and non tavernites, and the reluctance of the majority of Bt'rs to not'rock the boat', more reasons that a boycott would be difficult to organize and would be of only token significance.
I fear that taunton is prepared to suffer the loss of most of the posters that have made up our community in order to impose their will, and they are taking the bet that the forum will rebuild itself without them.
No way else to explain the treatment of people who have been guests in their house for years.
I hope this forum here gives some a place to vent and communicate in this time of confusion, but you well know we will never make this place into the old place.
Your approach may be an effective one by refusing to be kicked out, but only if a large enough number of posters feel the same way, and have the time, energy, and expertise necessary to mount such a campaign long enough to wear them down. Those that do have the attributes necessary will inevitably lose steam over time, making a sustained effort improbable.
I would prefer that they become enlightened in some manner that they have acted outside the realm of good faith, rather than be brought to behave by brute strength, if that is possible.
But I think that it is unlikely that they will see the light.
Edited by Heck (Sun Nov 09 2008 02:26 AM)
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I like your thoughts and agree with most of them.
I find the though of it being our community most interesting. Anyone can host a site. We (you), the users, and people who answer the inquiries consistantly have created the community, and lent our collective credibility to it.
It, in some part, is ours to give, and ours to take away.
Collectively, the huge sucking sound of credibility heading towards the big vitreous trap either makes a difference or it don't. I won't care if it don't, cause they will have flushed me already. I'm just going to try to do something to save my friends while it still looks like a pool.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
Your approach may be an effective one by refusing to be kicked out, but only if a large enough number of posters feel the same way, and have the time, energy, and expertise necessary to mount such a campaign long enough to wear them down. Those that do have the attributes necessary will inevitably lose steam over time, making a sustained effort improbable.
The training curve for getting a free email addresss is really short. Then delete cookies and re-apply to BT. You are instantly accepted, then you post, signing your 'real' handle at the bottom. After my first cycle, i could do get an ID and check in in less than five minutes.
I was expelled on Friday morning from all of BT. By Friday afternoon we were at stalemate. Now imagine 20-30 people doing that...as often as necessary. We can post anywhere, but they have to find it...helpful to us, a handicap to them.
They can ban the ID, but if they make registration very difficult, it hurts THEM for sales to customers. It's such a beautiful bit of poetic justice, i tear up just thinking about it.
They are relying on us behaving better than they are behaving. I suggest we not fight fire with fire, but we can drill a few holes in their gas line.
Che Groupie 
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 971
Loc: Rhode Island
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here's my problem.... i can be as contentious as the next one... and this will sound like the pot calling the kettle black to SOME...
but really.... the Tavern was just a mess for about the last three months
there was serial posting.. repetition... childishness...
peevishness...
name calling...
denigration of not just the candidates running for office.. but also those supporting the candidates running for office
now... some of the people i have known and grown to like over the last 10 years or so ... are gone.....
and so are some of the ones i have gotten to know and dislike in the last three months or so .... are gone with them
did taunton use a heavy hand ?
you bet
what are the chances that they will reconsider and let byfones be bygones ? who knows
if i had to bet.... they'd dump the tavern before they'd give in to a boycott
in short .... i think a cooling off period is in order and then we petition management for reinstatement
but, hey, whadda i no ?
hey.. i forgot ... we got polling ability
boycott.......... yes / no
cooling off & petition.... yes / no
none of the above
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highfigh1
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
Loc: Mullarkey, WI
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Andy- thanks for the e-mail about this place. How long has it been around?
I PMd Sysop when I read that a lot of people had been banned and never got a reply, just like everyone else. Does nayone know who complained and why they should get preferential treatment, or did we just make some little weenie cry?
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Bite my shiny metal azz
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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Well you guys probably aren’t going to like what I gotta say, but here goes.
I agree with most of Colleen’s points, a boycott isn’t going to do much IMO.
I think if anything it will please Taunton that the problem has gone away, less complaints, less annoying e-mails. I think we brought it on ourselves, including some of us here, myself included.
JHole, I know you invited me here, but I thought yours and Buttheads constant bullying of rjw and squarepeg were outta control. I’m surprised you weren’t booted long ago. Listen, rjw annoys the crap out of me at times too, but he’s like the nerd that you protect from the schoolyard bullies. The screaming giant sized fonts and the harsh language was just over the top IMO. And what was with Butt’s little histrionic tantrum last night? I’m not trying to get into it with you, just saying.
I’m sure the parking lot idea you guys had for an alternative forum was well intentioned, but it was clearly viewed as an ambush. The nudie pictures were kinda crass too. You were providing a direct link on Taunton’s property (kind of like the recent real estate sign thread).
I got booted recently and I did my time and kept my mouth shut. JBuck apparently reported me, for something that was so trivial nobody in their right mind would have, yet he was proud of it and bragged about it. Now he’s out and I’m in. He set a precedent, that many are apparently following, and now everybody is being booted. Congratulations.
I also think that Rez’s anti-polijive threads and complaints to the mods just brought more attention and resulted in a backlash of freedom of speech complaints from other posters. Maybe it worked…....if you like an empty tavern.
And also to those who think they own the tavern cause they have been here since day one, well I got news for you, you are no more important then the newbie who just logged on for the first time. This is cyber space, not a real bar.
Like I said before, I have had my flame wars and have probably crossed the line too, maybe the ref was looking the other way that day. I also have taken a lot of crap and just thrown it back or ignored it. I know it has been hot and heavy in there lately but that is just a reflection of what has been going on in the whole country. That’s what made the Tav so special, it is (was) a microcosm of the whole country, with all 50 states, Canada and beyond logging on.
So, I think a boycott is pointless, nobody will miss you in the long run, the Tavern will just become irrelevant and they’ll use the folder for something exciting like ‘The Lunch Pale’ where you can discuss your sammiches ad nauseum. I say, just wait it out, quit fanning the fires and it might all return to normal. Alternatively you can clean this place up, update the jukebox and we can start smashing bottles over here.
Peace
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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My connection to BT and to Knots is very personal. I met my dearly departed husband on Knots, and grew up politically into an aware individual on both sites, as well as developed very close relationships with several individuals. I don't expect this to matter to Taunton, but it makes defying them a no-brainer.
Taunton fired the light-handed mod over in Knots and replaced him with a Nazi or two who took the Cafe apart in no time. It's now become the de facto Facebook page of a woman who knows practically nothing about woodworking except for tool reviews she's read, and who chastises anyone who looks remotely interested in lobbing a tea bag.
As i see it, those are the options, and we each can face them with defiance or acquiescence. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees, eh?
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
but really.... the Tavern was just a mess for about the last three months
The timing of the massacre, the night Obama wins, is truly peculiar. Why not deal with the problems you noted earlier, instead of waiting until the time had come for wound-licking and reconciliation? People were already starting to adjust to the inevitable that very night. Something's hinky with that.
(Hey, this software's easy to use...)
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Dino
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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What the heck is going on, anyway?
I've been head-down and butt-up laying a bloody, stinkin', floating floor in a tearing-ass hurry and haven't logged on for a couple of days. As a result, I feel like I came into a ballgame during the seventh inning stretch and don't know who's on first.
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mmoogie
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Westford, NY
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Hi guys,
Thanks for the invite to come over and see how you all are doing. I think it's terrible what happened.
That said, the polijve was out of hand, IMO, but I read a lot of it without participating, and I don't fell scarred for having done so. Just turned off.
In many ways I wish I hadn't read so much of it because I was starting to develop ill feelings towards people whom I otherwise respected.
Anyway, I do feel there must have been a better way for them to cool things off a bit without the wholesale massacre. So I would be willing to participate in a quiet boycott for a given length of time, though I agree with splintie that it won't matter to TPTB. New people will come along and fill the void and life will go on. No one is irreplaceable.
Steve
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ruffmike
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 1
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Alright, I checked in, read up and would be willing to participate in a boycott, or at least try (it is an addiction after all).
Meantime, I'll go on visiting Breaktime in my passive non-confronting way.
I was afraid I was going to get banned for admitting I used to stuff wall cavities with my scrap butts.
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There's a fear down here we can't forget.
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Well said.
now... some of the people i have known and grown to like over the last 10 years or so ... are gone.....
and so are some of the ones i have gotten to know and dislike in the last three months or so .... are gone with them
And most of the former were driven away by the latter. Most of the latter were swept out in the 'big boot'. (Along with too many of the former, in my own opinion. But it is what it is.)
what are the chances that they will reconsider and let byfones be bygones ? who knows
In all but a few cases, I'd bet everything I have, on that being the case.
I think we'll see most of those names showing back up again, next week or so.
if i had to bet.... they'd dump the tavern before they'd give in to a boycott
Take it for what it's worth... I was very VERY concerned that that was already going to happen. Especially after reading some of the vindictive, incendiary, totally clueless crap that has passed for 'discussion' of the issue.
I am not certain that it hasn't already happened, and all that is left is the doing of it. Nor am I certain it won't still happen, if it hasn't.
~
We have been here before, and that threat has been put on the table before. It has been a real threat every time.
That same threat was made less than 6 weeks ago, and I am certain that most have already forgotten it. It was, and remains just as serious a threat as at any other time.
Continue to throw gas on the fire, and you'll only burn the tavern down...
~
As I said, the threat has been made before.
Each time, people calmed down.
For a while...
Then after a while everything went right back to hell in a handbasket.
After some of that, TPTB came back and took much more harsh actions. Then again, threatended the tavern.
People got calmer again, and then the cycle started all over again.
Each time, the action taken, has gotten more and more harsh, until now we have, what has just happened.
TPTB do not want calm... for a while. They want us to be civil and have at least a modicum of respect for each other... from... now... on...
I'm thinking that at some point, the cycle is going to get to the point where they have to do something again, and this time, instead of booting people with no explanation, the tavern will simply disappear, with no explanation.
And I think we are damn lucky that that hasn't already happened. I know it has already been pushed for...
It'll come as no surprise that I voted for the cooling off period.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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Hi.
Just replying to let you know I received your email. As you know..you and I both left BT for about a year, at the same time...and came back in the same week...how weird was that? But then I left again, for reasons I won't get into. And besides that ...The Woodshed Tavern isn't what it was for me. I also no longer trust people there as I once did. So I'm out regardless. But it WAS a great family.
The blow-up that just happened...I have not a clue about...seems to be just a continuation of what was going on when I was there a few months ago.
But.....I feel that The Shed feeds the fests...and that would be too bad if its demise lessened the fests. There is the Fest Section, but friendships are made in The Tav.
Just my 2 cents worth...or whatever that is in Canadian funds
Peace to all
Newf
PS: Best of luck with this.
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john7g
Reged: Mar 29 2008
Posts: 15
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I'm here and read the ideas. Too early and not enough sleep to form an opinion yet. I do not, however, agree with the latest mass slaughtering that was done by the mods.
Kinda weird that before I get the msg from JHole I checked in here yesterday for the 1st time in a long time just to look around.
7g
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Splintergroupie -
My concern with you "frontal assult" idea to defy the bannings by creating more and more profiles will only anger them, and will just make them more determined not to let us back in.
A boycott MIGHT do the same thing. But at least it's not so much of an "in your face" response.
What's the goal here? Do we want back in? Do we want revenge? Or some combination of the above?
I want back in. But only with my original "BossHog" screen name. If I don't get that I ain't going back.
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DonCanDo
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 1
Loc: New Jersey
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I'm not banned, but I am really disheartened by the way FHB is handling this whole siutaion. Chidlishly even deleting threads. I thought that they were part of the BT community, but apparently, they have a different agenda.
You, and others, have been invaluable contributers to the BT community and I hope you don't stay away forever even though it looks like that's exactly what FHB wants. I imagine it must feel like a kick in the pants and you may not even want to come back. After all, they're even hunting down alter-egos. It's as if it's become personal. I have not doubt that whatever (probably unwilling) employee was tasked with cleaning up BT, is probably reading this thread to make sure that they don't get blind-sided.
I agree that a boycott is not likely to have any effect. In the absolute worst case scenario, where BT becomes a train wreck, they will just close it down. Not just the Tavern, but the whole thing. Why wouldn't they? They'll save money in the short term and the long-term loss of sales on books, dvd's and magazines won't be noticed until the next management turnover.
I have learned too much on BT to give up on it yet, but FHB has to learn to take the good with the bad. Right now, they throwing out babies with the bathwater and it will diminish the overall value of BT. I think they're making a mistake, not just ethically, but even from a pure business perspective. But hey, it's their house to ruin.
I don't have much else to say. I mostly just wanted to lend some moral support to "the damned". I know you're quite tenacious, I hope others are as well.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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I got your email, Andy.
Just a caution, Colleen. Doin' what you have suggested could result in criminal prosecution.
If anyone goes that route, maybe post from a wi-fi hotspot or public computer to make it harder to trace.
Mike Rooney
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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fter my dust-up with Colleen and Tony, I got a warning myself and deserved a bann.
But truth be told, the Tavern lately had gotten so bad that I was in a mood that I did not give a flyin F*** whether I got banned or not. Could be partly why I let go as much as I did.
Anyways - I don't think a boycott will do much good or carry weight with Taunton. They're more likely to just think, "Good Ridddance"
Splintie has good points but I would take them farther...
I tend to be an all or nothing kind of guy. Pretty peacefull up to some certain point. Go along to get along, but
IF
I were in on trying to reform the mods at BT by doing war with them, I would not only organize a boycott, I would include phone calls to the office - hundreds of them.
And I would incorporate Splinties ides,
And I would have us use alternate IDs to loggin and do guerilla warfare not only in the Tavern, but in the main boards as well. No outright WRONG advice that would hurt any innocent bystander trying to do his own DIY. But a lot of dilutory cr@p that would have the effect of watering down everything there and rendering the entire site nearly worthless.
THAT is their calling card and the value of the forum - those of us who participate in the main forum with GOOD advice that helps people. Taunton gets that for free, and we get whatever kick we get for out egos out of helping somebody else.
It does not get Taunton's attention when Tavern members have to go crawl home on their knees drunk from a nights fighting, not when they crawl back again begging permission to participate in another brawl.
But IF you wanted their attention, two weeks of diluting the value of the main forum with silly songs and suggestions, along with dozens of false IDs would do that.
But I can tell you how I would re-act to such a tactic if I were Kevin, and it would not be pretty and you would not win. I would know that the end result of dealing with a bunch of guerilla revolutionaries is that they fragment and once you bow to their demands then a yet more revolutionary group splinters off and demands more, and then more again, etc, etc, etc. So regardless the cost, I would win that war.
So once you start down a road like that, you need to be willing to drive the knife in to the hilt and twist, not afraid to get blood on your hands.
I'm not there. I don't think a war like that benefits anybody. I pick my battles, and this ain't one of them. I do sympathize with those of you who got booted unfairly and without warning and I could easily have been amoung you, but I knew ahead of my fighting with Tony that had I gotten booted, that I would have been just like he did, in waiting out my time.
Meanwhile, my main reason for being at BT is to help DIYs. Maybe it's time for me to focus more strongly on that. If I get bored, maybe it's time to go play with the dog instead of clicking threads in the Tavern.
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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jlazaro317
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Indianapolis,IN
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Don't know if it will get anywhere, but I'm onboard with a boycott and cooling off period as Mike suggested. I think the mods have gone a wee bit overboard and everyone needs a little cooling off. I want to see the regulars back on Breaktime.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Yo Don, I see you brought up something that I gave thought to b/4 I inserted a link to here in a post at BT.
I have no doubt that whatever (probably unwilling) employee was tasked with cleaning up BT, is probably reading this thread to make sure that they don't get blind-sided.
Whomever the poor person is from Taunton that gets to monitor this whole episode is more than welcome to peruse these discussions. And they are encouraged to respond-maybe then we can get a handle on the reasoning behind it all.
I posted the link to get some discussion going off the board so even the banned ones would be able to join in. I see a few took the more direct route using the private message email feature. Seems to be working pretty decent-hopefully more will join in.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I would think that would be the next logical step - after the players of the team are in place - comprising a common goal.
Maybe the goal will be reflected by the size, desires, and commitment of the pool of players.
Personally, I am a blank page at this point, tactically.
Emotionally, I'm a little pissed at the treatment of the community. I would also like to see "the community" have a chance to continue on whether it be at the Tavern or at a offsite location (here, start a new location, ..., ???)
I also would like the BT portion continue on as it had up until recently. I feel that it sucks that people are getting booted from BT for something they did in the Tavern. Especially when the Tavern guidlines are so arbitrary. I would not be real interested in continuing investing in such a scetchy organization.
It seems to me that there are two seperate structures at play. BT and the Tav. The people who go to the Tav are generally the support structure for the BT side of things. But, noone says that they have to be in the same location.
I would think that Taunton would be more than happy to be done with the Tav. I would also think that the members of the Tav would be more than happy to see Taunton out of the role of running it.
Why does the Tav have to be under the umbrella of FB? Let's just say we move it over here. You can still reference things that happen at BT, cut / paste, carryon as usual - without the threat of "the man". Hell I bet if we all throw some money to QT, we could fix this place up real nice. We could end up getting all the things that we have begged for up to now and haven't gotten - Quazi seperate poli room for Rez and Others who would like it, etc...
I'll throw this out there. We ask taunton to reinstate everyone back to BT, where there has never really been a problem. And tell them when we're done with helping them, we'll come over to our own Tavern. One more bookmark, big deal. Hell none of us are really in the same place anyway - why does it have to be there?
No boycot, no JABS at them, just a mutually beneficial existance.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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>Let's just say we move it over here.
Best idea so far.
This place is mostly outcasts from a musician's forum I hang out in. They have a rather unique approach to moderation - everybody is a mod.
http://www.liveruckus.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=2
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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Mistah_T
Reged: May 19 2002
Posts: 135
Loc: Elmira, NY
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You bums and Bummettes can't hide from ME!!!
Well I agree that BT has gotten ridiculous lately.
I see it as a continuing trend on Taunton/Lowes (that never gets old!) to cater to the DIY market and the almighty $$$ they bring ...
but they are being shortsighted because while the DIY may bring in the bread, it is the Pros that bring the BUTTER!!
as stale as JLConline is at least they recognize that professionals in this line of work are being assaulted from all sides.
Its all about $$
the rest is politics and bullspit
TPTB want us to respect "their" site rules, but they need to show a little bit of mutual respect back
or at least some fake sincerity...
I don't have the time or energy to fight the fight the way that will have a chance of winning, but I will join a boycott and do what I can to piss in their cornflakes if needs be...
Maybe if we invite the mods over here to have an off the record discussion of what happened and why they could give us the benefit of at least explaining ,or attempting to explain their motives.
-T
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Do NOT try this at home!!
I am a trained Professional!
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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lets just move it over here .
Great.
Remember that sign when you can't go any further down that dead end dirt road?
NO DUMPING!
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Mistah_T
Reged: May 19 2002
Posts: 135
Loc: Elmira, NY
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I bet they (TPTB) will not like the idea of a link to a separate Tavern site that has no financial benefit to them.
they are only concerned about their bottom line.
If it means that the tavern goes by by then they will not even think about looking back.
until the $$$ slow down...
If there is ONE thing the Righties here(there) have taught me is that :
First there are the laws of $$$$
everything else is just opinion
apologies to Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Do NOT try this at home!!
I am a trained Professional!
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mmoogie
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Westford, NY
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>>truth be told, the Tavern lately had gotten so bad that I was in a mood that I did not give a flyin F*** whether I got banned or not. <<
I think that's indicative of the problem they are trying to fix in their ham-handed way. Negativity breeds more of the same. The air had gotten pretty toxic in there.
I think they have been flailing in trying to deal with it. Someone higher up the ladder clearly just said "zero tolerance" starting now.
I also think we overestimate how dependent BT is on the tavern regulars. There are many more posters who never go near the tavern. I really don't consider myself a regular poster...tavern or otherwise...I'm more of a lurker of late.
I've got to say, with the tavern all quiet, I find myself in the construction threads more in this past week. I think the tavern has been sucking way to much energy out of a lot of us that would be more productively spent elsewhere.
So where am I going with this reply? I don't know. I think if a reasonable quiet boycott would help get the regulars re-instated with the understanding that the rules are going to be a lot more firmly enforced, that would be a good thing for everyone. I don't think all-out war would benefit anyone.
Steve
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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We don't need their link.
If need be, the new Tav could be strategically referenced in BT posts now and then for any new people who would be interested.
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"So where am I going with this reply?"
Just amusing us with your musings?
But they are mostly right on track. Time for a cooling off period.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Here's an important post by Stan some of you might miss:
General Discussion - DeWalt Top17 contest...17 days left Subscribe
From: StanFoster Nov-7 8:46 pm
To: ALL (1 of 5)
112589.1
I have just 17 days to complete my stair project in the DeWalt contest. Next week I MUST set both stairways...followed by bending up and installing all the curved handrail going from the basement floor...to the main foyer....level curved railing in the foyer connecting to the main stairway...and then on up to the 2nd floor. I have to then layout and drill all this rail for the iron balusters. I do not apply the finish to the stairs...so I am at the mercy of my stainman and painter to get the stairs done in time for me to have 2 full days to install all the iron balusters by the 24th of this month. YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am on track.....I will be asking each and everyone here to register to vote once a day from Nov. 25 thru Dec. 15th. Then just vote as often as you can for whatever of the 17 projects you feel deserves first place.
Thats all I ask....and I will have no regrets even if I end up in 17th place. I have been burning the adrenalin off from 5:30 a.m till 5 p.m on this contest and the other stairways I have going.
I do not ever keep a schedule like this...but I am enjoying this so much...I figure I can handle 6 weeks of this.
You can check the progress of all 17 at www.dewalt.com/Top17
Let me put my campaign hat on and promise you all free gas for a year for your vote. ha
Thanks
Stan
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Edited 11/7/2008 8:46 pm ET by StanFoster
Options Reply
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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J...
Great idea.
But can I ban some people first?
LOL!
No...I really do think that is a great idea. It's why this form was started in '02. That, and the "new" format sucked.
But I really don't think that Taunton cares ...one way or the other. My guess is that the Tav will be gone very soon.
And really...so what...
Life does indeed go on. And as Paul says ...the dog will have a better time too.
This crap just goes on and on and on.
Peace
Newf
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FatRoman
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Hey Andy,
Thanks for the link here. Good to see you back in action.
Per the boycott, I'd be inclined to believe that a single letter delivered to Taunton, and signed by those here (banned and free) would be more persuasive than a silent boycott.
Of course that depends on if you have a group that's even interested in playing ball over there any more.
There's been a lot of junk over there lately, but the admins haven't handled the process well at all. Baby with the bath water and all that. I'd rather be somewhere that I can choose to ignore the nonsense than have it removed by someone else.
I told Calvin I'd be willing to lend my assistance on the forum work here.
Best,
Steve
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dieselpig
Reged: Nov 17 2003
Posts: 2
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Hi all.... long time, no chat with most of you. After JHole's email last night I've sorta got myself up to speed on what happened. As usual... I have a few thoughts on the matter... worth just about what you paid for them.
1. I'd be willing to bet that you (we) are all currently lieing in the bed we made for ourselves. Like it or not.
2. I'm not seeing a whole lot of remorse, regret, etc. for blatantly violating BT's terms of service. Look, I've been there... I'm no saint and have indulged in more than my fair share of name calling and personal attacks... albeit not in political threads. BUT... the rules are the rules. Can't forget that we're guests there. I see whole lot of blame being passed onto the mods.... and very little being swallowed by 'our side' as a whole. It always takes two to tango kitty cats.
3. Suppose "the Tavern" was a real tavern for a minute. And you've been occupying that bar stool down the end every night for the past ten years. The place has become a community to you. Your friends are there. Your confidants are there. Your life (to some extent) revolves around that community. Do you really think that if you started becoming a total nuisance to other patrons and blatantly violated the rules that you wouldn't (sooner or later) get tossed on your ear?
I see a whole lot of "entitlement" in this thread and very little "accountability" for what has happened. My best guess.... most got exactly what they deserved and probably more second chances then they're even aware of. Like it or not, it's Taunton's forum and they make the rules. You don't get special privileges for "time in grade" over there. You can accept that you're just another bozo on the bus and basically shut the F up and get in line..... or you can throw stones, act indignant, and ultimately watch from the window.
As far as a boycott.... I'll support you all and play along. But I think it's a total waste of time. They don't give a S, plain and simple. Have you read the magazine lately? Pick up a recent copy.....it should answer most of your questions about whether or not the opinion of most of us matters to them. The Wild West days of the internet are over.... roll with it.... or get rolled over.
Listen to Mike Smith. He's right an awful lot of the time. Cooler heads prevail. Let it cool down a bit, swallow your pride, admit your part in the debacle, and ask for permission to have the PRIVILEGE of posting on BT reinstated. Or don't. That's your choice... ain't America grand?
Sorry about the atrocious spelling. I think I even spelled atrocious wrong. Twice now. Oh well... y'all get the point. Hope I don't sound like too much of a dick.... just calling it like I see it. Probably making myself about as popular as ever.
I know it's easy to start to think you're special just cause you've been there a long time or post a whole lot. But the truth is, you aren't. And neither am I. We're all just bozos on the bus. We need to get over ourselves, realize our part in the situation, and move on. If they let you back on eventually, learn from it, and mind your matters and respect others in the future. If they don't let you back on.... learn from it... and realize what your temper, ego, and/or sharp tongue has cost you. And always be smart enough to not make the same mistake twice.
You wanna be right? Or you wanna be (fill in the blank)? Married, paid, employed, included, accepted, loved, etc.
Best,
diesel
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dovetail
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 9
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I be here.
Thanks to those who emailed me.
Thinking on the problem with the Mods.
Just thoughts.
Individually I know I am not important to Taunton , cept maybe if I drop my subscription to their mag, and even that is just a minor annoyance if they can gain the control and direction of the forums in the manner they see fit.
Stop posting at BT and there will always be some other individual who knows more than I about any given subject matter to who will replace me. Posting there is 1/2 ego gratification, 1/2 desire to help on my part.
Problem from their side it is 1/2 ego about not losing control of their site and 1/2 knowledge that those banned simply do not make up enough of a $ base to really worry about. (Gotta admit they warned us all)
More than a few years back they outgrew their need for those who were the actual base of their mag and Bt and can now go on making their $ without those people.
Biggest issues I see:
Knowing the attitude of the vast majority (The Lurkers). Without actively involving those individuals the "Banned" and their supporters will simply be ignored.
Total lack of dialogue between the people running the site and the long time posters.
Possible Solution? Pick one or two spokespersons from among the banned and supporters and try to establish dialogue.
But I am afraid that is gonna be like trying to talk to my ex when she was pissed. Ain't gonna happen.
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frammer53
Reged: Apr 12 2008
Posts: 14
Loc: utica, NY
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Thanks for the link.
I would like to tell you that, first I was not banned but am willing to go along with whatever the majority suggests.
I think Diesalpig and Mike are right, but like I said I will go along with whatever you would like to do.
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Edit: sorry Newf - didn't mean to post this to you. Just getting my feet wet in here.
OK guys, here's my take on this banning deal:
Life's not fair and neither is BT. Boycotting is not gonna do doodly squat. There was a bunch of people there when I arrived and a lot of them are now gone. Some have left and come back. We're all just numbers to them and soon forgotten to all but the people we've met personally and the few others that spend way too much time there. If we become negative numbers rather than positive, we're gonna get booted. It's infinitely more important to us for BT to be the way we want than it is to Taunton. The Woodshed is more than likely just a burr under their saddle as it brings absolutely nothing to their mission. They gave us a sandbox and we pooped in it.
Now they've decided to house train us, but they've lost patience and we've developed really bad habits. They decided to take a couple of us out and shoot 'em to make the rest toe the line. I'm guessing that's the reason for the un-evenhandedness of the banishments. Seems to be working. Buttkickski decided to kill himself rather than letting them do it. The result was the same.
Bosshog doesn't know why he got banned. But they've told us creative spelling will not be tolerated. Maybe Ron didn't get the memo, but I knew to cut it out.
I've not had any quarrels with the Tavern since I figured out how to use the "ignore thread" function. If a thread is started by one of the 10 or so copy and paste artists operating, I just ignore the thread. If there's a pissing match going on thats starting to bore me, I never see it again. I read the paper everyday, but I skip the articles that don't interest me. Same deal.
The main thing that bothers me is the lack of communication about how long you're banned. I'm guessing that has pissed you off more than the actual banning. I'm hoping they do the right thing and contact the banned and let them know their sentence. It's starting to look like Guantanamo Bay.
I've made some good friends at BT and learned an awful lot from some of the people there. But, there's also a few aholes there I could do without dealing with. And the ones I know and love, I'll stay in contact with whether they're at BT or not.
Now, my thoughts on QT: No new blood ever comes here. The last post before this fiasco was in January. Cal has asked me for some pictorials and I'm gonna try to get them worked up to try to draw a few more random viewers. My advice to everyone that got booted is do the same. Since you can't waste time over there right now, quit your bitchin' here and let's be the Little Rascals and put on a show over here. Add some content other than "Taunton did me wrong".
I'm done. I've a pictorial to make up.
Grant
Edited by CU2 (Sun Nov 09 2008 03:06 PM)
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Thank you and don't forget the pictures-keep 'em in focus.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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There's another thing: I hope this is taken as served - constructive criticism.
It may just be me, but I have a hard time navigating this site. I'm sure if I spent more time here, I'd get the feel of it better, but I always end up going someplace I don't want to be and have to find my way back.
A little fatroman magic might be just the ticket.
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brownbagg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 13
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They dont like me no mo. You know they are reading everything that posted here.
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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You know they are reading everything that posted here.
I don't think they ever did like any of us. Let 'em read.
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Henley
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 3
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Hey all,
Thanks for the E-mail Andy.
Well, It's the people on Breaktime that keep me
coming back.
Helpful answers and good companionship. Taunton's
bottom line and political correctness are meaningless
to my life or feelings.
So, if a boycott is helpful let me know.
Chuck
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Mistah_T
Reged: May 19 2002
Posts: 135
Loc: Elmira, NY
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I have not read the rules here (imagine that) but maybe you could sneak some nudie pics into the Cu ones....
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Do NOT try this at home!!
I am a trained Professional!
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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What are the rules?
Registration as a User implies acceptance of the following terms and conditions:
- Participants shall not post any material likely to cause offence, that is protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right - without the express permission of the owner of such copyright - or that contains personal phone numbers or addresses.
- Participants may not use the Forums to post or transmit advertisements or commercial solicitations of any kind.
- The appropriate Forum Moderator has the right to edit, censor, delete or otherwise modify any posted message.
- This web site does not verify or guarantee the accuracy of the material posted to the Forums or bear any responsibility for any loss, damage, or other liabilities caused by any posted message.
Pretty much leaves us quite a bit of leway don't it.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"You know they are reading everything that posted here.
I don't think they ever did like any of us. Let 'em read. "
At a conf FHB sponsored, Andy E introduced me to a bunch of the suits and wigs at a round table. The expression they all had was priceless - like they had just met a creature from Mars, or worse.
This site is harder for me to navigate, but they have great little things here, donchaknow?!
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Excellence is its own reward!
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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>>>>I have not read the rules here (imagine that) but maybe you could sneak some nudie pics into the Cu ones.... <<<<<<<<<
You really want nudie pictures of me? I'm not too sure I want you to have them.
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Again, well said.
Thank you.
Revenge and vindictiveness is only going to hurt all of us.
Not the people that everyone is angry at...
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Aaaand, once again, I am reminded why I am so proud to call you friend.
Wow.
Common sense may be commonly uncommon.
But then some pig comes along, carrying around enough for a dozen people...
Thank you Brian.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Thank you.
Well said.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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He doesn't need them.
He'd just get the screen all sticky anyway.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Quote:
This site is harder for me to navigate, but they have great little things here, donchaknow?!
Do they got one of these?
- Mike Rooney
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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jagwah
Reged: Nov 19 2003
Posts: 7
Loc: Oklahoma
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The powers that be seem to me to have made a big decision and that is to eliminate the Tavern or as others have said reduce it to a tea and crumpet social.
Even with all of us gone within a few months,I can assure you if someone asked where's Jagwah or piffin or rez or jhole the response will be, Who?
Taunton's counting on time, which they have, to empty the malcontents. They'll redefine everything and we'll go elsewhere, like here.
I wouldn't hold my breath that a boycot will work. But that said I'm game to try.
To the Abyss my bretheren, I stand with you.
Bob
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Just A Guy With A Hammer
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Whats with this site...grrr. Just spent an hour writing a post and it said it wasn't valid and dissapeared...grrr.
No one like me anymore...
I'll write a shortened version but I'm exhausted already.
I was booted apparently for good b/c weeks went by and I couldn't post. No explanation as to what I did for over a week. I was totally clueless. No warning even.
I was never kicked out b/4 either.
I was then told I made a racist post!! ME...racist? So much for the moderators knowing a thing about whats going on in their own site. Even cops know the MO of people in their hood.
I used to frequent a site that was new. Was about timber framing. That led me to another site that was very well established and I think as big as BT if not bigger.The Forestry Forum
They wouldn't allow me to post so I wrote the owner of the site and he actually called me on the phone. I was shocked!!! He spent a little time explaining to me that the little new site "he saw me in" was started by someone they were having legal problems with....I got it! I was so impressed that he took the little personal time he took to smooth things out. I've directed scores of people his way ever since. a little goes a long way.
I love the saying...tell five people you love their product and gain ten more people....tell five people how bad the product is and loose a hundred.
Too many people..especially in this economy get too big for their britches and treat good customers like they don't mean anything. I think thats a huge mistake.
One of the things they do in the Forestry Forum that I think is GREAT...is they have a sort of Board Room folder where the owners/sponsers and some members go into to help the forum keep on a positive track.
I originally was sold on FHB when I discovered the Forum. The people that ran the place from the mods to the editors all seemed to me to be caring creative people. People I related to. JLC was a great "trades" rag and TOH was fine for old house DIY'ers but FHB seemed to be trying to take things further. They seemd to be reaching out more then the other rags. I really loved that about them. I suppose that was then and this is now...huh?
I'm not about looking to hurt anyone...with a boycott or whatever but I'm also not one to let someone toss me like trash without having some kind of say in it....some kind of way.
Some people most certainly deserved to be tossed but I think most didn't...especially the way they did it.
I had a mix of emotions...from sad to mad.
Like a lot of you,...I was part of the community for a decade.. I offered help to folks and got help in return.
It was another incredably valuable tool. Made me sad to see it tossed in the trash so easily.
I don't wanna be where I'm not wanted but its a pretty sad day when the higher ups treat people with so little regard and respect.
Wish my first mail didn't dissapear...grrrr.
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Carole
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 137
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Carole here. I can't believe what happened. I know that some posts were juvenile and sophmoric. Some were even hateful, but those people kept posting and posting. I guess I was on the wrong side of this election <G>...I began posting at BT when husband got back into the furniture designing business. I know I have been lambasted some times because I was not in the business, but I suspect there are many who lurk over there are not in the business.
Anyway, I did not receive a notice. I was booted once because of what I said to someone who shall remain nameless.:) I hope all of this gets worked out.
BTW, some of you are over at CooksTalk and have been welcomed, but some are stirring the pot over there. Beware, some ladies over there are ferocious.
I really don't have an opinion on the boycott, but I will support whatever happens.
Carole, formerly Pi.
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Sissygal
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 1
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Sheesh! I finally found my way back in! I DO miss my old screen name though.
Don't actually know how I feel about this topic yet.
But then, I am very rarely offensive at BT.
darcy
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Andy - I did the same thing getting the hang of this place. There's a "quick reply" that shows up when you're reading the post. I'm guessing if you just want to say "yes" or "no", that's the ticket. It must have a time limit on it from the time you open it.
I think the realization is that Taunton doesn't want the Tavern or especially the crap that sometimes gets spewed there. The mods here know us and we're not likely to be missjudged. OTOH, we need to not bring the venom over here from BT.
I'm here to help and learn about construction related issues and joke around a little - this is amusement. If I feel the need to argue politics or religion or look at lame porn, I'll take it to Buttkickski's forum.
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Finally! I MADE IT..damm passwords..
Anyhow, I'm hanging witchoo all.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Anyhow, I'm hanging witchoo all.
- Mike Rooney
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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LOL
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jlazaro317
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Indianapolis,IN
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So who's gonna start/move the photo threads over here?
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junkhound
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 1
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Noticed about the only pol thread over at BT yet is to trash Sarah, the moderator must not like her <>G?
Anybody have a list of who got banned, have not seen Bill Hartmann (who always had more helpful tech posts to folks than he did dut and paste of non-liberal news stories. Cant beleive Boss would get banned either.
Guess if Carole and Andy got banned too, it is not just one sided politics.
If I had a lot of time (which I dont, > 10,000 air miles coming up this week) it would be interesting to describe the pres elects with quotes from past diatribes against GW and see what happens ??
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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My profile says I joined up here in 02'?
Geezz...I was drunk then...lol 
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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and the day after, and the next,
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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Ok, here’s what I think. It’s long, so grab a cuppa.
Tavern denizens all have culpability in the current situation. Each and every one of us…to varying degrees. We crossed many lines. It’s been going on for years. Those who crossed are responsible. Those who encouraged and egged on are responsible. Those who banded together in complaining squads are responsible. Those who watched and said nothing are responsible. Those who saw real offenses and did nothing to right them are responsible. Those who frequented this establishment and made no attempt to meet the proprietors (mods). We shat in the sandbox. And most everybody got tossed out, even the sweet ones and the innocent.
Now, more than ever, our sandbox is in very real danger of being shut down.
What course of action we take depends on what we really want. I, for one, want to play in the sandbox again. But the real goal is to keep the community together.
We have to ask ourselves how we can get what we want? My experience is that you get what you want by 1) giving the other guy what he wants to some degree and 2) avoiding leaving them with buyers remorse.
We have no power to affect change unless it’s positive change. Boycotting will have zero effect and 1) may not even be noticed and 2) gives TBTB what they want (peace in the tavern) but does not gain the community anything. Any course of action needs to remove the feeling on the part of the mods that the effort of the tavern is a “thankless task”.
In their face just gives them permission to do what they really want to do – make the tavern go away. And let me tell ya, it’s easy – one click and the entire folder is hidden. Gone forevermore, along with all our history and all our posts. Getting revenge doesn’t reach the goal of getting my sandbox back. And while there may be satisfaction in telling them to stuff it, it’s a “cut off your nose to spite your face” thing.
What I propose is that we organize this here community and take it back. The goal is to remove the burr from under the saddle of TPTB and to never come to their attention again. Ever.
I suspect that the basic problem for Taunton is Value Proposition. The Tavern’s value is far outweighed by it’s cost: time, aggravation, risk to the Taunton brand – in their opinion. Why that is not true for Cook’s Talk, I have no idea. The only choices are 1) cost them less 2) be of more value or 3) a little bit of both. I suspect that the problem isn’t actually that tavern denizens don’t contribute enough to the taunton brand, it’s that it’s not recognized and that can be solved by familiarity and communication – two things sorely lacking in the relationship.
Don’t run to a new board, lessons don’t get learned that way. We’ll just shit in that sandbox, too. I’ve been through this cycle too many times. The new board will thrive for a little bit, fuelled by anger and “unfaired upon” but eventually it will wane and the community will fizzle out. New posters don’t come on board and eventually it becomes stale and people drop away. I’ve started two “refugee” boards from similar situations. It’s so satisfying at first, but in the final analysis, everyone misses the old sandbox, because the new one ain’t the same. The time, energy and money that it takes to support a thriving forum eventually wears ya down.
Our goal is to 1) get the sandbox back – with real usernames. Some are real baddies may not be let back in, but several were whacked unfairly and they should be reinstated.
But I want the sandbox back with rules posted and enforced. And consistent. Living with this frustrated gavel is no good. The problem is the rules shift around and then enforcement is completely absent. As we saw recently, frustration builds and then the mods go wild. Yes, that’s their fault and they did it badly. It’s not our fault that they don’t have the will or time to do this job. But barring the ability to change that (nil) the best plan I see is to share doing their job for them.
Here’s one way to go about it. My vote would be a well-executed, strategic plan:
1) Decide as a group to write one (1) single letter to Jean Paul/Robyn and post it on board. Like in the “Tavern Civility Pact” everyone shows their support by posting a single posts that says “AYE”.
2) Ask JP to “out” the current shadow mods and give them gavels. I guarandamntee you that JP isn’t sitting up 17 hours a day moving posts to the tavern, deleting posts etc. I posted a thread by accident in the wrong folder. It was moved in minutes to the Tavern. No way was Robyn and JP sitting on the board at the time (I looked at logins). Someone is modding, or several someones. Who are they? I bet they are “of us” but only have partial power. If they were fully empowered, no innocents would have been killed here. I say empower them fully. Hell, pay them if you have to. They are probably volunteers Out them and then we all respect them. No pushing, no shoving, no baiting. They are MODS. Period. Hopefully one or more of them turns out to be well-respected members of the community and can command the power and fairness needed. If not, choke it until we can lobby for more or different boards mods.
3) Realize we have no power to remove TBTB and attempts to do so will just get the board shut down. Robyn and JP aren’t going anywhere. They, or someone above them has a beef with the tavern – realize that and don’t tempt them. Why is GAY banned on BT, but not on CT. Why is CT as rough (and as political) or worse than BT, but all the attention is on BT? My suspicion is that there is backstory here that we don’t know. Therefore, recognize that it’s there (whatever it is) and deal with it.
4) Elect representatives to open up lines of communication with the MODS. These should be persuasive and effective communicators. No threats, no strident stuff – clear on mission and able to persuade.
5) Elect representatives to commit to act as “team mods”, official or unofficial, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what their background is or what their politics are: they need to be fair, even handed, even tempered and able to commit the time. If they don’t have the time, get more people to spread the burden. They are crew bosses and their word goes. When they say cut it out, that’s it, cut it out. If you don’t you go to the point system (see below)
6) Craft “rules to live by” and then live by them
7) Commit to self-moderation. When someone is baiting and rude and condescending and looking for a fight, we step and say so on board.
8) Craft a point system (which taunton should have already had) laying out how people should be bozoed, given time outs and permanently banned
9) Craft letters for the mods to use (which taunton should have already) along with a communication plan for sending them out to defenders.
10) Commit to never again email Robyn or JP with complaints. That what got us here in the first place. Don’t complain on board or off – only reports to the Board Mods.
11) Give up on the idea that topics of discussion are inherently bad. Complaining about “polijive” isn’t really helpful. However, agree to constrain the politics to a few threads. Don’t post every bit of political news in a new thread. That will allow people who don’t want to play to avoid the topic easier.
12) Give up on the idea that the tavern can only be frequented by people who can prove their construction background. It’s alienating and folks from all walks of life have something to add.
13) Decide whether you want transparency in mod action – do you want a thread where the mods pop in to say: just a note to let you know Larry’s been banned. Or would you rather not know on board? Either way is fine, but it needs to be consistent.
14) Commit to support the mods when they make decisions (assuming we all are on board with fair rules and a even handed system for penalties). If we do this right the official mods take big actions ONLY after discussion with the Team Mods/Crew Bosses. No controversy needed. No infighting: “ I can’t believe you banned him, he’s much wors than”…..no buts.
I bet if we step up and present as an organized community, we’ll get it back and if we show our mettle, we might even be trusted with words like “gay” and “crap” again. =)
In lieu of all of the above, I would vote for “cooling off”. I got a 10 dollar bill that says the majority will be reinstated soon anyway.
However, Cooling Off doesn’t give the TPTB comfort that we will play right and it doesn’t shift any of the power our way – which is one of the problems here is that the community as no power. Taunton isn’t going to miss our 150 or 200 subscriptions. Trust me, if we all disappear, others will take our place and the only ones hurt are us.
I value the community and want to find the best way to get us what we want, get Taunton what they want. If we do that – the community stays together.
My two cents, for what it’s worth.
Christi
SquarePeg
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Nice post SP...really well thought out!!..
Like I said in a previous post having members on "the board of Mods" or whatever you want to call them would be a way to help BT stay on a positive course and lighten their...and our load.
The example I used was The Forestry Forum.
They have a folder called: ABOUT THIS FORUM and within that there's -->"Behind The Forum".
I think something along those lines would be invaluable except in BT it would be more about whats going on behind the scenes to keep things running smoothly and fairly for all.
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php#4
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited by ANDYBUILDZ (Sun Nov 09 2008 06:43 PM)
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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A good, well reasoned post, SP, with constructive ideas. It's apparent you have been through this before.
It's been obvious to me for some time that some one up high has a personal agenda with the community at BT, due to the disparate treatment afforded to BT vs CT. It seems to be a person with a very narrow mind who wants to tell us adults how to think, what to say, and what to believe. They purport to confine the language not to just that which would be admissable on a family forum, but attempt to ban the use of commonly used words that are hot buttons to them
All of this with no explanations whatsoever, as if we were all small children.
It is this utter unfairness that galls so much, and makes it difficult for many who want to go back to make gestures of reconciliation.
I agree with many of the proposals you put forth in your post, but a real solution will involve both sides placing their cards on the table.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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I do think it's possible to open up a dialog.
And I think we should try.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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We've always used a "forum administration" folder that is hidden to discuss cooperative managment. Also a "forum" folder out front for members to post in.
Works well.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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If nothing else Cal, this little BT police action is great for business over here. I see people reading up on some of the old posts like 'chocolate mousse'. Maybe you should start charging a cover.. and you can hire those waitresses from the Star Diner.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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I could be completely wrong on some of my thinking -- without real "inside knowledge" I'm just guessing. But, I've been around internet communities and how they work long enough to see the dynamics are really the same wherever you go. As far as current thinking from TPTB, we can't know unless they talk to us.
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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The same thing that happened to the mag is happening to the forum.
The mag has been dumbed down, I dropped my subscription years ago, it was no longer of any use or interest to the pros.
They have been attempting to do the same thing to the forum.
And, if that is what they want, that is inevitably what will happen.
No amount of complaint or pleading was able to save the magazine.
I understand that many of the patrons were too loud and unruly, especially as the place was being transformed into a fern bar, so they took action.
But to me it's indicative of the direction they are wanting to go.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Not sayin' we shouldn't, but...
Up to this point, anyone with enough gall to even ask a question or post a concern has recieved a speedy and thorough beat down, delete or bounce.
I don't necessarily disagree with your first post, but(again), it sure seems like a lot of BS to just sit down, drink a beer, and exercise the first amendment. In the end it still places a bunch of responsible adults into a daycare atmosphere.
As an example - One of my last conversations in the Tav was with you (COLB). To be short, through the middle of that exchange, it did get a little heated. Trying to get a point across to someone who isn't following your points is very frustrating. In the end though, you and I, and the people following it came to the realisation that it was more of a misunderstanding of initial premise than argument. In the end I felt no harm was done and no hard feelings were had. Unfortunately I feel someone saw the middle of that exchange, didn't follow it to it's conclusion, and blasted me out. If they would have seen the progression to the end they would have seen that it turned out to be a positive for all involved.
If the content and exchanges aren't allowed to happen freely (within reason of course) what's the point? And I have a feeling that TPTB at Taunton are not interested in the free flow in the Tavern type topics.
I feel that there should be less restriction and a better definition of the ones that remain, than more.
But, I aint holdin' out hope that Taunton really give a dropping.
I don't have ALL the answers...just along for the ride for now...
Just .02
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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I understand your frustration.
But I really think that if we are to move this situation forward, we have to let the hurts go.
We can hash out the injustice later, ya know?
I'm a fixer and it just kills me to not DO something.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I agree, I'm more of a fixer than you would think.
Win -win is always the best. Just don't know what their intentions are at this point. 
If they'd rather be done with the Tav, then fine.
They don't have to run it anymore, and we don't need to be worried about our BT access being tied to it.Or their skiddishness in running it.
That would give them no reason not to reestablish the people that they wrongly booted from BT because of Tav issues and everyone moves on together with what they are interested in most.
Not lobbying.. Just throwin' it out there. 
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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OK I'm here.
So I sent a former employee that letter to post.
I did get a kick out of the name he chose.
Thanks for all the replies that i got, I will answer everyone.
NOW WTF??????????
He Emailed me this morning says he can't find the post that he made "message does not exist".
Now I was effun tame with that letter, & blamed nobody but myself.
Saying goodbye is against BT rules.
Holy crap.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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SquarePeg, I didn't read all of your long post - It was just too much.
At the moment I'd say I'm too ticked off to go kiss their butts and ask to be let back in. If someone else feels like that's a good idea, more power to them.
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Becoming an unperson is hard
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Excellence is its own reward!
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 971
Loc: Rhode Island
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well.... i'm very goal oriented in my business , political, family, and personal life...
when a dispute arises, i always try to get the parties to focus on their mutual goal... they usually have one
then they have to modify their position enough to allow the other party some breathing room so they too can focus on the goal
here's my goal.... to continue to enjoy the conversation with my friends and acquaintances on BT... that includes all of the different categories....including the Tavern
here at QT there is not enough new blood to sustain my interest ... nor the interest of most
i can only participate meaningfully in one forum.. for me that is BT
i'm not interested in a boycott.. i think it would be counterproductive... it would not move us towards the goal...
what is the goal ?
1)to reinstate some of my old friends and adversaries in the Tavern
2)to help them tone down the vitriol so we don't have to resort to insults to each other
3)every once in a while.. someone wanders in and starts kicking over the furniture... acting like TROLLS.. they are fairly easy to spot..
i would like some way of letting them see the error of their ways
4) it doesn't bother me if Taunton uses censorship.. it's their board.... and i can certainly tell what XXX means from the context
5) i would like to STOP the reporting of perceived violations by some members
they should learn to ignore them and move on
6) i would change MY stance and tell certain people that I feel they are overstepping the bounds of good taste and i hope they would take it in the spirit offered...i wouldn't do that on a regular basis....it loses it's effectiveness
7) i really miss some of the people who are no longer here... some have just wandered away... some were banned
but some returned just to fan the political flames... we would have been better served if they had remained away
8) some of those who are banned are going to stay banned because they refuse to recognize that BT is not theirs to do with as they want..... i can think of one who fits that description and i really wish that person would make their peace with TPTB.... because i really value their input and conversation
9) BT is very much a part of my small life.. it is important to me.. the fests are important to me... meeting people in person that i have met here on BT is important to me.. i'm looking forward to next August and attending yet another fest and meeting some more new people
10) push and they'll push back...push harder and they'll push back harder
first they'll get rid of the Tavern... then BT... they have other forums ...
11) one of the charms of BT is the constant inflow of new personalities..... it has acheived a "critical mass" and is self sustaining...... QT will never acheive that critical mass... it is a niche
enough for now...basically, i'm in agreement with Luka & Christi
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"5) i would like to STOP the reporting of perceived violations by some members
they should learn to ignore them and move on"
in my POV that seems to have been the fuse on this bomb. Yes there have been infractions, but crybabies made life hard for the mods.
I know I was toning down after a nudge and an elbow in the ribs from Square Peg. Carefully done, that sort of thing can help us help each other, coming from someone respected as long as worded right and not done too often.
I don't mean just her doing it. I mean each of us dope-slapping each other time to time.
I think you have reminded me once or twice that the sun is shinning outdoors and what a nice day for a walk.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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If nothing else Cal, this little BT police action is great for business over here. I see people reading up on some of the old posts like 'chocolate mousse'. Maybe you should start charging a cover.. and you can hire those waitresses from the Star Diner.
Hey man.
We know our place here.
Keep this board up so in times like these there's an outlet available for communication.
Keep it up so as in the past when BT crapped out and was unavailable we could at least find some info on the reason.
Keep it up to make collections possible to help out one of our friends when they're in need.
The few of us trying to maintain it might be viewed as Viagra I guess. 
In the beginning here there might have been fleeting thoughts of actually replacing Breaktime-tho I don't think any of us thought that remotely possible, probable or even viable. We remain online as a safety valve, a sort of lifeline-backup-whatever. To do that does cost money. We cut everything. Hurt some people in the process. I know for me, p'ing money away isn't an enjoyable passtime.
We've cut costs down to as close to zero as possible. Gave up on Auctions when we couldn't con anymore folks out of goods to put up for bid. Still, you have it right-it'd be nice to get a donation once in a while. With this exposure-maybe we will.
I guess you can be assured unless this thing crashes and burns it'll be around the next time you need a hand. 
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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brownbagg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 13
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only thing that ever offended me was when bob started preaching the religion with verses and started preaching about abortion. Subject that I feel should not be ram down your throat.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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"when a dispute arises, i always try to get the parties to focus on their mutual goal... they usually have one
then they have to modify their position enough to allow the other party some breathing room so they too can focus on the goal"
Mike,
I've been taking a back seat watch on this whole episode, as I have not been banned. (Don't know how they missed me!)
So far from what I have read here, I agree with your ideas and Brians post.
Others have made suggestions, but based on FAR too many assumptions, mostly the erroneous one the Taunton will ever WANT them to return to BT.
It's a sad time for BT, but I think what happened was for the most part justifiable. And they DON"T (repaet several times) have to justify their actions, nor do they need to let ANYONE back in.
I am amazed to sit here and watch folks that got tossed, try to bully their way back in, and not even realize what they are suggesting.
There are a few folks in the Tavern that I could admittedly do with out, but I would still miss them to some extent because they are not always total azzes.
Just my 2 cents here.
Eric Paulson
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
"5) i would like to STOP the reporting of perceived violations by some members
they should learn to ignore them and move on"
in my POV that seems to have been the fuse on this bomb. Yes there have been infractions, but crybabies made life hard for the mods.
EXACTLY my thoughts all along!!...not that it matters anymore. I even recieved private emails telling me "to watch my back"....like it was some kind of game. I thought that was going on behind the scenes by a select few to only find out I was right.
Looks like it blew up in their faces and took some of us along with them for the ride. I know there are a few that played that game still with partial privlidges posting in the General folders as unfair as that seems. Life's unfair ain't it?!
It irks me to no end thinking about emails flying back and forth between those people plotting .....how they'd teach us.....by reporting us...for anything remotely worthy. They knew the mods were over their heads trying to figure out what was worthy and what wasn't so they just opened a mass boot store.
Reporting people seemed to me to be as lame as getting booted for little reason yet too many of the community couldn't help themselves. The ignore feature or scrolling past posts wasn't good enough.
Reporting people should be reserved for very serious issues like what Piff went through with Larry....not just b/c you find someone annoying.
Things become more and more clear don't they? Hindsites 20/20 ain't it?
--------------------
www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited by ANDYBUILDZ (Sun Nov 09 2008 10:24 PM)
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highfigh1
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
Loc: Mullarkey, WI
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Does anyone actually know who whined and got everyone tossed or was it just them being the 'All powerful Oz'? Assuming access is still granted when people ask for it, I'm not sure why what was posted is really that big a deal. As I said, I found the name calling and tone of a lot of posts to be pretty degrading. As annoyed as I was with Frenchy, I just offered to discuss anything BUT politics with him and he seemed to go along with that pretty much. IIRC, there were threatening PMs sent to some people by the ones who were offended most, right? That's pretty effin' lame.
How about a list, so I can go in and use "Honoring the fallen BT-ers" after posting their names? I hadn't been going there that often lately, anyway and if they boot me (surprised they didn't after the message I sent to Sysop), I'll just stay away.
(No feelings were harmed in the writing of this post)
--------------------
Bite my shiny metal azz
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BucksnortBeelee
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Sheesh, this is one tough joint to get past the bouncer!
I don't know what happened at the recent shed debacle, I was out registering new voters, ha!. But, I do remember when the shed was started. BT began as a place to kick back after work, but apparently none of the organizers ever really worked, cos they sure didn't realize that we liked to get drunk and share our opinions on anything and everything with everybody and anybody. After a few flaming meltdowns, George Carpenter, RIP, suggested a woodshed so we could go behind it and beat the sense into any disagreers. Taunton figured they could make a buck if they sold sold refreshments and the tavern was born.
Seems like priorities have changed, or the bartender's too slow, and in more than one way.
I'd like to know the rest of the stories, if not for entertainment value, to make up my mind which way to go.
If Andy Clifford's a racist, I'm a guy who wants a lipsticked oil manicured malamoodle next in line to run the show
Seems like, maybe, to get taunton's attention, hit them in the pocket book. An en mass subscription cancellation along with a promise to only buy used taunton publications unless we're allowed to vote on oustings... we can form an electoral college based on the inverse of the Frapper map!
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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I understand, Boss.
But the beauty of the plan is that we go as a block. You don't have to beg nobody!
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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Well, I think it's important to go as a block. It does no good to have one group working their buts off to fix it one way, only to have the tavern bombed out of existance because another group was going postal.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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I got nasty, threatening "watch your back" emails. It was a game to see if they could get people kicked off. But then again there are a couple that exist for no other reason to rile people up.
The Complaining Squad didn't help things here one bit.
That "i'm gonna get you kicked" off stuff HAS to stop.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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This is one strange story unfolding.
Hey Heck, you got any drawings in the works? I'd like a signed framed copy.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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highfigh1
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
Loc: Mullarkey, WI
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"That "i'm gonna get you kicked" off stuff HAS to stop"
Are these all new members or have they been there for a long time?
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Bite my shiny metal azz
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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New member wouldn't have any reason to care. :0
But, I don't think we need to single people out.
Just pull together and straighten up.
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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hmmm....
not sure how to 'reply all' here - so you're it, Calvin -
'Well, here's another fine mess you've got us into....'
had to re-register - didn't have my old password, and my long time ISP ceased to exist (suddenly, without warning) about two weeks ago, along with my long time email address/service -
so - can't say we weren't warned -
"-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Peachfest coordination
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:35:20 -0400
From: Jean-Paul Vellotti
To: Debby and Rich Beckman
Hi,
Just to let you know, I mailed 4 boxes that should get to you Thurs.
morning.
In three are prizes that you can raffle off somehow or another. The
other box is SWAG (hats, pencils, bags) that can be given out first
come, first served.
I also have to send regrets that due to scheduling, I can't make it. The
good news is that I will be shooting video for the web; this time a
large deck building video with Rick Arnold that is slated to be an hour
plus and for members only.
I have a bunch of things I wanted to talk about, and maybe I'll get them
down in an email and you could let the group know. If I'm really hip,
maybe I'll do a video post (but who has wifi in an orchard?)
First and foremost though, please inform everyone that the Obama and
religion posts have to stop, or the tavern is going to go away.
Thanks, JP"
I think it obvious that TPTB are set on gaining control of the situation - I'm cautiously optimistic since the tavern is still there -
it did get real ugly - and not to excuse the poor excuse for moderating, why should these guys have to babysit a bunch of alleged adults?
that said, the arbitrary nature of the banning (as near as I can tell, they picked a couple of threads that after the election were threatening to carry on the battle and banned all the participants, catching people like Ron in the same net as the hard cores), is discouraging and telling about how these guys regard the forum -
anybody been in touch with bobbys?
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Guess he was too busy learning how to build a frickin' deck to get to that e-mail...
And since the video post never made it either I'm assuming he aint too hip...
I thought of Bobbysthis morning, but don't have any..... Oh wait yes I do...
I'll get on it.
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dovetail
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 9
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Well here is something to while away the time w spent waiting for a decision.
Best score wins escaping permanent banning??
http://woodgears.ca/eyeball/index.html
Edited by dovetail (Mon Nov 10 2008 12:04 AM)
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Sent to Bobbys.
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Quote:
OK I'm here.
So I sent a former employee that letter to post.
I did get a kick out of the name he chose.
Thanks for all the replies that i got, I will answer everyone.
NOW WTF??????????
He Emailed me this morning says he can't find the post that he made "message does not exist".
Now I was effun tame with that letter, & blamed nobody but myself.
Saying goodbye is against BT rules.
Holy crap.
Ya I was looking for the thread of your letter to get your e-mail addy and it just up and disappeared.
BTW how was your fishing trip?
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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doudone at netusa1 dot net no longer works ?
No wonder the email I sent you today was bounced. (I've been sending emails to that address for quite a while now.)
I'll try to edit your profile here, and put the email that you used for this username, into that profile as well.
If it works, I'll have the forum send you a new password.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Ok, that SEEMS to have worked.
I don't know if it actually will or not, since the same email addy is now in two profiles.
I'll have that temp password sent.
Then you can try signing in as: David_Doud
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
First and foremost though, please inform everyone that the Obama and
religion posts have to stop, or the tavern is going to go away.
Thanks, JP"
Well so much for Obama not bringing change 
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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Is there anything all of you all in the banned club need done in the tavern? I've got about 20 emails in reserve if you need some cloak and dagger work done that will result in death I'm you're man.
Lefty-Now A republican.....Leftists Get Killed by Taunton
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Ummm, I don't get it.
When I click on that it opens my profile page?
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Shep
Reged: Nov 18 2003
Posts: 10
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I hope all youze bums stay out of the Tavern. Now I can sleep on the floor without someone kicking me all the time. <G>
Seriously, tho. I miss all you reprobates. I hope that something can be done with Taunton to fix this. But I'm not sure, judging by some of the posts I've read here.
I'm willing to go along with whatever the masses decide. I suck with trying to figure out computer stuff, but I'll help however I can.
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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neat game - 4.31 on the first three rounds -
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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You have BobbyS' email addy ?
Get him to come here and sign up !!
We miss him something terrible !!
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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Weather was great in Tillamook, but that meant no rain, which means low water, which means no fish.
Had a great time though.
Stopped at Debbie D's & got me some beef sticks---- best around.
Email is bwplumber@yahoo.com
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I just did.
Man, NOBODY believes a thing I say...
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Jeff, is it me or is there smoke coming out of the board?
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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JMadson
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 1
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I haven't had a chance to read all 6 pages yet, but if one more voice is needed - I'm in.
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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ya - the netusa addy faded - first I couldn't get to the email page, home page was still there, now the home page has disappeared too - box filled up - bah - need to email everybody, but want someone else to do it -
at least they failed before the yearly account came due this month -
use my mac.com addy for the time being - put it on the website too, please -
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Oh, I believed you had his addym, and emailed him.
I just thought you were telling him to look into this thread. Which he can do without signing up.
I hope he signs up and contributes.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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You can lead a Bobbys to water......
But you can't get him on Pete's boat
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Edited by JHOLE (Mon Nov 10 2008 12:40 AM)
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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I think this thread has as many posts in it as we got on the entire board for the last year.
Think I'll take the time to reiterate what you said earlier...
That is exactly what this forum is all about.
Holding the community together until things calm down and we get back to business, posting at BT.
And being there when someone in our community is in need. Etc.
This forum is not about attacking BT, or getting vengeance.
IMO That kind of talk does not belong here. And while we are not the type to just arbitrarily edit stuff out of threads, I want it known that QuittinTime Does NOT advocate any actions against Taunton that could lead to legal consequences.
FWIW, some of the things advocated earlier in this thread are federal offenses...
We do NOT advocate any such thing.
(And before anyone asks what, where, name the law, etc... Do your own homework. Or reject the statement, and take your chances. I am not just making something up because it 'sounds good for my cause', like some are wont to do. I know from past, anecdotal experience, that that is the case.
But I am way too busy, (and way too stressed out already), with too many other things, to do the homework and come up with citations and/or links.)
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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bambam
Reged: Jan 17 2007
Posts: 14
Loc: Nacogdoches Texas
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Thanks Luka, Im in now as you can see.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I was just going to lead him too the water, not hold him under
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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That's what I emailed you about earlier today. To ask if you had any changes you'd like me to make.
Has the password/username thing worked out ?
Have you gotten a new password, and can you sign in under the old name ?
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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I'm getting a little tired of the copyright violations on the Glass City............
Change the font.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Good, I'm glad it worked !
Calvin said he sent you a new password as well. LOL
Either one would have worked...
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Jus' stirrin' the pot here boss.
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bambam
Reged: Jan 17 2007
Posts: 14
Loc: Nacogdoches Texas
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Yeah, I had three passwords to work with with. None of them seemed to want to work for me either.
Thats what I get for tossing my cookies I guess. lol
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alwaysoverbudget
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 3
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wow i got tired of reading,so thought i'd just post this and maybe it's already been talked about. i don't think the powers that be could care less if we boycott the site.it isn't making them any money.
but maybe if you was to take a survey of who all would jump on the train and how many subscribers are involved,and that we was willing to cancel those subscriptions it might have some weight .subscription numbers is all they care about.
i really don't have a problem with them moderating a site that their name is on the top of and they pay for the space. but i do think this needs to be handled differently. either pull the post,contact the writer and warn,or if that don't work boot the guy,but they have to tell a guy why and really should post it in that thread so that we all know what the boundreys are.
if you guys can come up with something to grab their attention,let me know,i'll take the jump.
what the heck,if the shut the thing down,theres always porn sites!!! larry
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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Sorry, Cal, haven't been in the mood to draw lately, I guess.
But ya never know when inspiration will strike, and you get the next one.
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Quote:
Weather was great in Tillamook, but that meant no rain, which means low water, which means no fish.
Had a great time though.
Stopped at Debbie D's & got me some beef sticks---- best around.
Email is bwplumber@yahoo.com
Well you know what they say, a bad day of fishing.....
Did you go to ocean side? Some of the images on my web site are from the beach there.
--------------------
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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hmmm...
third try netted a 3.11
I'll try again tomorrow -
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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Quote:
Well you know what they say, a bad day of fishing.....
Did you go to ocean side? Some of the images on my web site are from the beach there.
Stayed in Netarts,
I go to Oceanside every year, & yes I boycott the Anchor tavern ;-)
But the boycott mentioned here is not a choice for me, as I can't even enter any of breaktime, knots, cooks, & what ever else they have.
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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I'm giving 3 to 1 that things will maintain just as they are now in a limbo sort for a while
and eventually go back into a normal mode with people being a bit more careful with their posts
and everyone banished will be sliding in the back door under new handles and cyberlife will continue on pretty much as before.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I've been thinking today, away from the computer. Nice...
I've concluded i don't really care to post in a forum where i can't mention Obama, religion, John Galt (Piffin, we should get back at each other's throats on that...), or fear to use the words "gay" or "Nazi". I'm not interested in daycare, as someone put it.
Given there has never ever been consistent moderation in my eight years on the board, i don't expect the latest in a string of snit-fits by the mods to evolve toward that. SqPeg's got a 14-point plan; i think that's about one point for each remaining poster in the Tav and way more complicated than i wish to deal with. I appreciate the effort, Christi, i truly do, but i question the cost:benefit and what you end up with for all that effort.
I've noted the veiled references to my "illegal" activites with wrestling Taunton to a draw. I might remind you that my posting privileges outside the Tavern were removed immediately after simply making a partial list of the banned, just as another person above said he was fixing to do. Anyone wish to warn him that Taunton considers that felony assault now?
I am honor-bound to be just as fair with others as they are with me, which is a far higher goal than legality. If there is repercussion, so be it. For now, Taunton has apparently agreed to allow me to post as "tenacious" in the greater BT area and i've no interest in having Tavern privileges on their terms.
I revealed my fix for their ban bec it works, it levels the playing field, and it eliminates the ass-kissing requirement that some seem astonishingly eager to fulfill. My philosophy is that if at first you don't succeed, quit, bec anyone who's going to be any good at anything generally shows a natural talent for it from the beginning, and i've sucked at ass-kissing right from the get-go. C'mon people... don't you have any self-respect?
With that in mind, it would be a simple thing for those of us posting in the greater BT area to put a discreet link to this forum in our taglines. Taunton no longer would have to monitor an access thread, police anything, or be held legally responsible for hurt feelings, indigestion, or apoplexia. My only concern is the moderation here, but perhaps behavior would actually be more self-regulating in one's own backyard compared to Curley's Tavern.
I'd like to see Luka as the Wizard of Oz and SP as Mod with the Bod. Fatro Man is willing to bring his decorators to bear, and CU's showing leg. I got words so i'm going to lead with Irish poetry:
The election was over and done
All agreed the best man had won
All we were lacking
With Palin sent packing
Was the gospel according to John.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I'd say 50 - 50.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I agree with your post.
Seems like it's just a matter of time 'til the Tav thing aint gonna' work again. The more hoops and rules - the shorter that time is.
BT works at a balance with it's subject matter, CT too.
The Tav aint going to fly under those same parameters.
Kinda like the nuns running a strip club.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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This is only a test. I'm trying to see if my avatart's going to show up.
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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OK...I have more then 2 cents worth...
Who knew?
OK:
As Dad: We have Mike Smith...we should compromise.
As Mom: We have SqPeg...Let's try and be nice
And as Don Juan's reckless daughter we have Colleen....screw them.
Well...I have to side with Colleen here. It's just the way I am. I too don't kiss ass, I'm getting old and curmudgeonly, and frankly The tav has sucked for years.
And I'm just not ready to make nice yet...
Great post Colleen.
And besides...we all LOVE turmoil...that's what made the tav.
Newf
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Mistah_T
Reged: May 19 2002
Posts: 135
Loc: Elmira, NY
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But but but....
If none of us go back Who will answer when some one asks:
the Black Diamond question
about venting
or tarpaper vs tyvek
or cutting trusses for space in the attic
or hanging cabinets with Piffen screws
or what is the bestest and cheapest: window/door/pergo/siding/cabinets/...
and who is gonna feed all the animals on the roof???
...
What we need to do is ask the black diamond question once an hour for 6 weeks.
and then refer to the lame-o search feature for an answer...
I will go back and kiss their ass if that is what it takes...
right after they pucker up to my hairy fat keester...
 
(I love gremlins!!)
NTTATWWT
--------------------
Do NOT try this at home!!
I am a trained Professional!
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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My only concern is the moderation here, but perhaps behavior would actually be more self-regulating in one's own backyard compared to Curley's Tavern
Common sense and a bit of class should keep you in good shape. Probably work in most bars too.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 971
Loc: Rhode Island
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heh,heh,heh.....you said "bit of class"
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"John Galt (Piffin, we should get back at each other's throats on that...),"
I was planning to do that after your hormones and my adrenaline came back to normal levels The discussion has possibilities and I think you vastly over-reacted in taking things personally that were not at first meant that way.
Someday....
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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I did, didn't I.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
But but but....
If none of us go back Who will answer when some one asks:
the Black Diamond question
about venting
or tarpaper vs tyvek
or cutting trusses for space in the attic
or hanging cabinets with Piffen screws
or what is the bestest and cheapest: window/door/pergo/siding/cabinets/...
and who is gonna feed all the animals on the roof???
...
What we need to do is ask the black diamond question once an hour for 6 weeks.
and then refer to the lame-o search feature for an answer...
I will go back and kiss their ass if that is what it takes...
right after they pucker up to my hairy fat keester...
(I love gremlins!!)
NTTATWWT
Honestly...I don't give a flyin' fug and I'm quite frankly sick of that crap..actually I was getting sick of the Tav as it was which was why I took a year off only to get booted a cpl of months later for nothing. Ironic isn't it?
And I came back exactly the same time as my main man Newf (Daryl)did. He was smarter though...he left again before getting das boot.
I'm not interested in baby games or cow towing to morons.
I'm also not interested in dealing with the neocon idiots and the hatrid they've displayed during this campaign.
Why stretch things? A new day is dawning so get on with it.
Be well my friends
andy
Edited by ANDYBUILDZ (Mon Nov 10 2008 11:40 AM)
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Wow.
You're a little edgy before your morning cup o' rice juice huh.
Note to self; wait til afternoon to post to Abbie
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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If any of you "non outcasts" post in Pete's thread about his Dad, would ya let him know I'm still following the story and am thinking about him?
I'd appreciate it...
.
BTW - I started a thread over at the Auction House:
http://www.quittintime.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=10355&Main=10355#Post10355
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.
Edited by Boss_Hog (Mon Nov 10 2008 12:17 PM)
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Done.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Uhhhmmm....
What exactly is "done" ???
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.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Taken care of.
Accomplished.
Fulfilled.
Fini.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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When you said "done" I thought you meant you had posted something over there. But I didn't see anything, and that confused me.
But I get confused easily.
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.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Jhole has been using part of my sig. line because he lives on the other side of town. I told him it was close to infringement-you know-cutting into my territory-trying to confuse the customer base.............so, he evidently removed it.
That made it done.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Just lurkin' for now, layin' low, but sooooooome day, ....
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Quote:
Stayed in Netarts,
I go to Oceanside every year, & yes I boycott the Anchor tavern ;-)
But the boycott mentioned here is not a choice for me, as I can't even enter any of breaktime, knots, cooks, & what ever else they have.
Ya I can't imagine the guy who put up the Anchor, what a douche. I like Kathleen's (I think thats the name) across the street.
On your getting booted, that sucks. I thought it was just 2 weeks in the pokey.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Quote:
This is only a test. I'm trying to see if my avatart's going to show up.
Like the avatar, isn't the artist peter "something or other" ? Was popular in the 90's with dreamlike lady's and lions ect.?
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Notchman
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: South Oregon Coast
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You're thinking what I'm thinking: Perhaps if Taunton received, as a mea culpa from the miscreants, some potential magazine article submissions like "Green Disposal of Roofing Cellophane Strips", "The Complete House Framing-with-Screws Guide" or "Designing and Making Upscale Street signs for Snooty Neighborhoods" all would be forgiven.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I did post.
Have to post under mhole. me here on lake erie.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Ha...be funny, wouldn't it, if QT got to be the alternative we imagined years ago on account of BT leaving us instead of us leaving them?
Did you and i have a hatchet to bury? I'm in...
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I don't have trouble with rules if they are fairly applied, in the bar, the bordello, or the boardroom. Dieselpig made a convincing charge that posters have a responsibility to self-regulate, and i concur, mostly. However, none of us would expect that just bec our employees had framed a few houses before that we could tell them to go out there and do that again and we'd check back in six weeks. If the eave edges didn't match up, should the crew be fired for insubordination or should the boss reconsider how realistic her expectations are?
It was clear from the time i came on board in 2000 that the forum wouldn't self-regulate. I'm a practical kinda gal, so i vote for what works.
Hey, are you going to finish those jo-jo's...?
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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The artist is Michael Parkes. An artist friend turned me on to his work a few months ago and now i'm a victim of unrequited love.
http://www.michaelparkesgallery.com/
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Quote:
The artist is Michael Parkes. An artist friend turned me on to his work a few months ago and now i'm a victim of unrequited love.
http://www.michaelparkesgallery.com/
Yep now I remember, thanks. They have a dream like quality.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Edited by Scarecrow (Mon Nov 10 2008 03:06 PM)
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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"Did you and i have a hatchet to bury? I'm in... ""
LOL!
[Darn Firefox does support the colour purple]
Sometimes a hatchet is just a hatchet...
A kiss is just a kiss,
a sigh is just a sigh.
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by.
[ There might be a slight copyright infringement there. Slight.]
And what DOES come after ..."I'm in...?
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shtrum
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Columbus, OH
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It's like bizarro world in here. The cigar store indian is on the right side now, instead of the left. The dart board's upside down. Hey, here's a nice change, the liquor bottles are full. Think i'll sit down . . . .
Just throwing out some moral support to those interested. Don't know if an official plan is in the offing, but BT seems to have done the nose-spite-face thing. Which is too bad. I'm sure it was never intended to wander the direction it did, but it was a happy accident nonetheless. It all seems like an ego thing now. Kind of like Firestone accidentally vulcanizing rubber and then throwing it out because he didn't think it up himself. No good deed goes unpunished.
My dos centavos: a change in personnel among the moderators. Which makes me think dealing with them won't have any effect. A letter to the editors or other higher-ups with Taunton Publishing (respectful but honest, pointing out how this community benefits them, with a number of signatories) will have a better effect. Anything aimed at the moderators will only end there. They've demonstrated a lack of tolerance, so a 'strike' will be like shooting spitwads at an anvil.
Otherwise, look forward to seeing the new costumes.
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shtrum
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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I is trying the black diamond question once an hour but few are rising to the bait. Even got one right answer.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Quote:
The artist is Michael Parkes. An artist friend turned me on to his work a few months ago and now i'm a victim of unrequited love.
http://www.michaelparkesgallery.com/
Damn.
I thought you loved *ME*.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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To be precise, Michael and i are unrequited lovers.
I've quit you many times, so you been requit. Once you've been requit, you can't be un.
You can be my ununrequited lover, if you wish. After seven years, i think we qualify for reunrequited lovers. I'm not sure i can quit you that long, though, esp not if we get anywhere near Brokeback Mountain
~splinter, getting more flexible by the minute
PS: Hey, my trusses arrived today!!! "Bruce" was great, let me play with his straps and rollers, demonstrated the braking system, told me his employment woes. I took pix, but the camera battery pooped. I'll get on it later, show you where the snapped member is. I'm chopping firewood now during a couple rare, non-rainy hours.
I took cookies to the guys at the truss plant on Friday, but they'd gone home early. I left the cookies with instructions to the boss not to eat them all. The guys told me they didn't get any this morning so i have to bake my second annual batch of cookies tomorrow. Trying times, indeed!!!!
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Dang, you lost me. Am I quitted, requitted, or unquitted ???
I'm even more confused than normal.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw
- Mike Rooney
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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Mistah_T
Reged: May 19 2002
Posts: 135
Loc: Elmira, NY
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DANG!!
I knew you guys were trading Overall stories, but not Overalls!!
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Do NOT try this at home!!
I am a trained Professional!
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I'm afraid it won't matter, Boss; we come from such different worlds. <wistful>
********
There's a man from Illinois
A real cute farmer boy
He kept me in stitches
But not in his britches
Cuz i'm a slave to soy
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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<snork>
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Nah, we don't go all the way. If Boss touched my "Tickle me Elmo" overalls there'd be hogblood on the floors.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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"I'm also not interested in dealing with the neocon idiots and the hatrid they've displayed during this campaign."
Hey Andy, plenty of folks from both sides of the aisle got the boot, and there are plenty of idiot neodems in the tavern as well.
I'll venture a wild guess that is just this type of commentary and attitude that got more than a few the boot, and took down some good souls with them.
I'm over the fact that my guy didn't win. I witnessed and participated in an amzing process. I am not bitter, nor will I go around publicly deriding those that voted for Obama.
I would really love to see you just get over this thing.
Regards,
Eric
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
"I'm also not interested in dealing with the neocon idiots and the hatrid they've displayed during this campaign."
Hey Andy, plenty of folks from both sides of the aisle got the boot, and there are plenty of idiot neodems in the tavern as well.
I'll venture a wild guess that is just this type of commentary and attitude that got more than a few the boot, and took down some good souls with them.
I'm over the fact that my guy didn't win. I witnessed and participated in an amzing process. I am not bitter, nor will I go around publicly deriding those that voted for Obama.
I would really love to see you just get over this thing.
Regards,
Eric
I was especially careful not to be that blunt over there.I repected the wishes of that establishment. I got booted b/c I was reported by one of "your guys" for absolutly nothing. It was a game to them. I've got more then one
"E-MAIL" to prove it. I never showed those emails to Taunton nor mentioned anyones name. Thats not what I'm all about eric. And the post you directed at me when you KNEW I was out was pretty pathetic eric so don't be givin' me your holier then thou tude' dude. At least here I can say what I really think....I think.
And there's nothing for me to get over. My statement was an observation and thats all it was. It had little effect on my every day life but thanks for the psycho analysis.
What I am is a blunt honest person that doesn't have the need to play games as you may be well aware of. Over there I "WAS VERY CAREFUL" to curb my language in spite of what you may think...in fact you can ask several people...Colleen will even tell you...I sent PM's to folks asking them to delete some of what they said so they wouldn't get tossed. Kinda sorry I did that now.
I'm not looking to rumble with anyone but I'm not gonna be some phoney a-hole that doesn't say what they feel.
Over there was a different story. I really watched myself b/c I knew the magazine had people that were very conservative and it was a business. I respected that to my demise...beleive it or not.
I'm sorry but I'm no Stepford kinda guy. I'm very passionate about all that I do...again...sometimes a bit too much for my own good but I've learned alot over the past buncha years as to how to curb my enthusiasm in public when need be.
anyway........
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Andy,
You keep mentioning these people "from my side" that complained and got you kicked out.
That's such a load of crap Andy and if you honestly believe that you must be delluded.
And yes, I took a cheap (very) shot at you posting when you where gone. I admit it and I own it.
And WHO ratted ME out??? Eh? See, "dose guise from da udda side are at it again"!!
I will not try tell you that you got yourself kicked out, that is something you will accept or not. BT neither has to justify it's reasons to you or anyone, nor does it HAVE to apply the rules even handedly. It's their park, they can do what they want.
I've gotten the boot a couple of times and I knew I had it coming and I took my licks. In fact I thought that they would get me for making that comment to you.
I've said it before; if one is so passionate about their politics, what the hell are you doing arguing with a bunch of dumb carpenters on a contruction forum? There has got to be a better place than that for such impassioned debate, and one that will involve folks of much higher caliber and intellect.
I truly believe that is the jist of the message that BT was trying to get across. Now they can wait as long as they want..........
I've gotten involved in this way more than I intended, and I ain't tryin' to piss you off Andy. Just adding my dumb carpenter 2 cents.
BTW Andy, I've had my moments of frustration with posters on the board, and I have had a fair share of complaints lodged against me. I don't know by whom and I don't care. But you can tell where they originated and as such, I would have bet $100.00 that the mods were leaning left.
So much for our theories on which way BT leans eh?
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Henley
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 3
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Oh that was you!
I figured there was some kind of subterfuge
going on.
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G80108
Reged: Nov 30 2006
Posts: 71
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To steal a line from Animal House (best move ever).
"We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part"
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rightisnowleft
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 76
Loc: Where Dorothy is From
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TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!
Lefty-Hanging with my banned comrades
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Eric has a point, or made a good one.
Trust me, this was the second time that I got a "set him up, gang up against him, run around in the dark and get him thrown out, then kick him in the nuggers"
The people who do things like that are cowards, and Pu****s.
They come in both flavors.
Glass houses and all...
I dislike anyone who claims to be right leaning as well as left who would do such a cowardly thing.
I understand your anger and forthrightness, but it is misplaced. If nothing else, start a new thread and go for it.
Wanna let loose and have a free for all? Jump in here;
http://pol.iboards.us/
Aint noone over there you're gonna offend. It's pretty much a free for all.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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That poem was funny - Best laugh I've had in a LONG time.
BTW - I didn't know you had an "tickle me Elmo" overalls. Got any pictures ???
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
Andy,
BTW Andy, I've had my moments of frustration with posters on the board, and I have had a fair share of complaints lodged against me. I don't know by whom and I don't care. But you can tell where they originated and as such, I would have bet $100.00 that the mods were leaning left.
So much for our theories on which way BT leans eh?
Yep...especially after I read the letter JeanPaul sent David:
"First and foremost though, please inform everyone that the Obama and religion posts have to stop, or the tavern is going to go away.
Thanks, JP"
....especially being it was sent to David.
I'm not looking to get into this any further. It does no one any good..all I DO know are the Emails I received which was proof enough for me who was after me.
I found it pretty childish and petty and led me to understand more then I really wanted to.
There's plenty of Republicans I respect and enjoy talking to.
I know there's aszholes on every side of the fence. I may be a dumb carp but I ain't that dumb.
The guy I'm doing work for now is an incredably great guy. We've had dinners together. He voted McCain...no biggie. I'm glad he voted.
The thing that got to me were the tactics people took to help get me tossed. Didn't seem to matter how careful I really was.
Thing was... I can't even begin to imagine reporting anyone. It's just not in me.
OK...end of story...case closed.
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Agreed.
The indiscriminate bannings may have been the product of a mod tantrum, but it appears to be working to Taunton's advantage to turn the undeserving insiders against the aggrieved outsiders and vice-versa.
I've decided i have no interest in being neutered on the new, improved forum where discussing Obama and religion are verboten topics according to Jean Paul's email to Peachfest, but i very much would like to continue knowing all you folks and meeting new ones. If our little community falleth apart from all this finger-pointing, we'll all survive that and go our separate ways. However, less finger-pointing might go a long way toward preserving our community.
There is no individual whose words were so persuasive that they tore the board apart. The only person who could do that is employed by Taunton. The only people who can resist the temptation to commit mass suicide are those who realize they have more in common with each other than the person at the master control board at FHB.
Let us not go post-menopausal.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Peace
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Well, i do have a pic, but i'm not wearing anything under the bibs because it's was so, so....i mean soooooo hot in the greenhouse and sweat was just running everywhere. I know you're involved in a relationship or i'd send the shot of the bibs anyway, but under the circumstances i know you wouldn't appreciate it if i did and i couldn't bare the thought of your not approving of me.
;^P
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Thanky, darlin'! <low bow>
(You know the world's getting ready to flip right out of orbit when Splintergrouper agitates for restraint, right?)
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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<<i couldn't bare the thought of your not approving of me>>
Well, dahhhlin', that is the most amusing typo. Or freudian slip. Or splinty humor. =)
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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You were laughing the whole time you weretyping that, weren't you ???
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Only my Muse knows for sure. <G>
I cut firewood all day so i get popcorn as my reward now with sesame oil, a quarter cup of nutritional yeast, and a sprinkle of dill weed. I float that in a plastic bowl in the hot bathwater with St. Pauli Girl sitting on the tub deck ready to give me CPR if i develop a cramp or something. You can never be too careful in a Kohler soaker tub, even with those chrome handles, if you're as short as i am.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Reply to all;
Ok we're settlin' a little.
No new news from anyone as far as Taunton is concerned.
Thought on Monday something might move somewhere, huh.
Let's start to spread out a little if we're comfy. Start postin' somethin' funner than this.
Looks like 1 auction is starting up.
I'm going to start searching for other auction items or see if we can get Cal to set up an easy donation post.
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brownbagg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 13
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what are the rules here, Can I say "Bite me" and get away with it.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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"but it appears to be working to Taunton's advantage to turn the undeserving insiders against the aggrieved outsiders and vice-versa. "
I'm so glad that you feel comfortable deciding who is deserving and not.
Some might consider what you sugggest to be mere paranoia.
You just don't get it do you Splinty?
It's not up to you to decide who and how. Perhaps if you owned Taunton then it would be. Until that day you are at their mercy.
It's that simple. Period.
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Dino
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Andy,
Yep...especially after I read the letter JeanPaul sent David:
"First and foremost though, please inform everyone that the Obama and religion posts have to stop, or the tavern is going to go away.
Thanks, JP"
....especially being it was sent to David.
Andy, David is not the only one who got a similar letter. And what that was about was not which politics were acceptable to Taunton; it was about J-P trying very very hard to avoid being ordered to close the Tavern. How you could have a problem with that escapes me.
The rest of this is addressed to TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN--, not to Andy in particular. Sorry, Andy; I don't yet know how to address a post to "ALL" on this board.
Anyway--If the foo fits, share it:
I've spent two+ days reading this long tale of woe, betrayal, skullduggery, and injustice--both here and over at BT--and I still don't know what happened except that a few people seem to have been banned and TPTB at Taunton are maintaining a silence on the subject.
But what actually happened seems less salient than the realisation that there is a small number of people who have mistaken BT for a sovereign, democratic state.
These people imagine themselves citizens of this state, and believe that entitles them to all sorts of inalienable rights like voting, free speech, and the right to bear flamethrowers.
Um, Reality Check time.
Taunton is not a country, and we are not citizens of it. These forums are owned, operated, and paid for by a private company. We are guests of Taunton, and we have been invited to participate in the forum discussions--free of charge!--but that invitation is and always has been subject to a very simple set of rules of behaviour.
This is not about politics; it is not about religion; it is not about race, sex, age, intelligence, knowledge or anything else of the sort. It is about respect and the good manners that a guest OWES to his host while he is in the host's home.
If someone came into your home and behaved the way some of you have been behaving in Taunton's electronic home, you would throw them out on their ear...and probably a lot quicker than the 'evil mods' at BT have done.
There are people reading this I truly admire and respect even though I disagree with their politics. They are welcome in my home any time. There are also people reading this whose childish, utterly selfish, whining drivel makes me want to puke.
And quite frankly, I've got better things to do than clean used pork chops outta my keyboard.
GET A LIFE, DAMMIT! Behave or begone. Grow the hell up.
Just sayin'
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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Bite me.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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<<If the foo fits>>
That's "if the foo shits" to you, pal.
And I agree with your every word. JP is trying very hard, against pressure, apparently, to avoid flushing BT down the drain.
We can disagree with his methods 'til the cows come home, but he's got a business to run and a 'real' job to do.
Either we make his life easier, or we wear him out. Simple.
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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There is a donation button at the bottom of every page.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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Colleen, in JP's defense, at that time the Obama=Muslim and Muslim=terrorist thing was in full flower in several threads -
it's been ugly - if it were my tavern, I'd make some changes too -
a good moderator could/would make all the difference - doesn't look like there is one in the cards -
none of the tauntonese enjoy/have the time/know how to do the job - it appears that moderating is the booby prize - hence the poorly concieved, hamhanded, inconsistant actions that provided a genesis for this thread -
dunno -
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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First of all, I know how to read English.
And with your writing sir, you are an imposter.
Brownbagg would not use that kind of language.
After that, common sense and just a bit of class. Not that hard.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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maddog3
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 2
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so this is where all y'all are hangin out !
may as well add me to the list of the Damned
and it's been a very long day so g'night for now
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Dino
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Quote:
<<If the foo fits>>
That's "if the foo shits" to you, pal.
Yah, well, I'm just a newbie here; I didn't know one could say 'SHIT' over here without gettin' ####ed or somethin'.
Yeah, after I got back from David's, JP let me in on a few things that were going on at that time in the Hexecutive Sweet in Tauntonville. Very very scary stuff, much worse than anyone has yet fantasized about even with all the screaming going on right now. And while I must respect his request not to blab the content of his letter to me, I can tell you that he's not one of the bad guys. And the fact he took the trouble to write me to ask my opinion of his 'keep it civil' decree indicates as clearly as anything could that he is not on a power trip.
I haven't written to him to ask what's going on right now, and I don't intend to. In the first place, it may have been taken out of his hands--that kinda shit happens a lot at Taunton--in which case we all better get real prayerful it doesn't go any further than it has. I repeat: he's been protecting us at the risk of his job. In the second place, the people causing the problem have already had enough warnings to float a battleship...yet they persisted. So what could they expect?
Anyway, Thanx.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Your actions in the Tavern belittling those who are no longer there reveal you to be the kind of person just brave enough to hang onto a dog leash attached to a manacled prisoner.
I don't win all the battles i engage in, but i'm not a coward. Sometimes it's just the company i get to keep that makes it worth the trouble it is to be me, but it suits.
We have in common that we both agree my writing is wasted on you. Expect a refund check in a few days for exactly what you invested in it. Now shoo.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
in JP's defense, at that time the Obama=Muslim and Muslim=terrorist thing was in full flower
Maybe. My first banning, without a warning, for two months, in both BT and Knots, was for using an Abu Ghaib photo that had been printed in the WaPo, long before this election cycle. Concerning their uptightness about typing 'gay' or 'crap' - even 'Washita'! - the conservatism is apparent.
I'm not under the impression, as Dino appears to think, that i own Taunton. Taunton uses the website to sell products; they use the forums to entice folks to their store. At best it is a symbiotic relationship where we provide content and they capitalize on it. One of the perks of that arrangement was the Tavern where we nurtured our community.
My point, in an earlier post, is that to throw a massive forum up and expect it to self-regulate is as unrealistic as expecting a crew to build a house without supervision. I have a friend who is completely ignorant of contracting who decided to GC her log home and ended up getting hosed. Most of you would consider her hopelessly naive to expect any other outcome.
No one is arguing for the right to bear flamethrowers, but for fairness in application of the rules in return for having helped Taunton build its brand. We are getting the antithesis of fairness. Dino said we'd be kicked out of a friend's house if for behaving as we did in the Tavern. He fails to note we would also kick someone out of our homes who behaved as passive-aggressively as Taunton has.
It doesn't have to be this way, but it's not all the posters' fault. In fact, one can easily reason that the entity with the authority, Taunton, has more responsibility for outcome. Taunton seems to wish its responsibility in the relationship to end with providing software and a server and reaping the benefit. Certainly it's their forum to ruin, but what a dumb thing to do.
I think my solution of QT or somewhere similar becoming the de facto back room Tavern that Taunton readily allows us to link to, while retaining the services of the posters in the regular forum, is equitable and workable.
I'm just repeating myself, for whose benefit i know not - certainly not yours. In and case, i'm glad i went to Peachfest when fests were still happening. Good-night, David.
~Chet
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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"Your actions in the Tavern belittling those who are no longer there reveal you to be the kind of person just brave enough to hang onto a dog leash attached to a manacled prisoner."
Splinty, you may embellish my actions any way you see fit in order that I fit the twisted image you have of me.
I responded to Andy and rjw in a toungue and cheek way to just once be able to get in a final word. TGNY was more than willing to rat me out to a whole slew of folks. (gee, you don't think that HE could be one of those people that go complaining to the mods do you?)
That's an issue I have here, the big, twist my phrase pontificators such as yourself can NEVER let another have the last word.
I did NOT get the boot splinty, what does that say about YOU???
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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BT is the only forum I've spent enough time at to know any of the characters. But I have spent a little time on numerous others. BT is the only forum of it's magnitude that doesn't have consistant moderating to my eye. On the others that I'm familiar with, the moderator will alert the potential offender in public when she/he's about to cross the line. If they persist or have already crossed the line, then the post is deleted. Don't know what happens next, because I've never been there, just witnessed.
This gives the flammers a chance to make nice with each other before they get axed or in some cases to explain the post that may have been misconstrued by the moderator. A moderator that has no knowledge of the regular posters will have a hard time moderating fairly.
Edited by CU2 (Tue Nov 11 2008 01:18 PM)
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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OK...you've heard the expression...dense as a post?
Well...that would be me!
It was only this morning i understood..."I'm in..." in your post. Colleen that was 6 yrs ago...I apologized the next day. and the day after.And then tried to just be me...and out of your line of fire. I have no hatchet to bury, I just said some very rude words. Well 2.
So...only one blow-up in 8 years...that's not so bad!
That makes me in, also. But I wasn't out, LOL
Is this the opposite to being "outed"?
More power to the correct people
Newf
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Dino
Thanks much for those comments.
I have spent an awful lot of mental energy on the moderator question, thinking that it has been going downhill ever since Andy E left.
And I agree that probably 2/3s of those who got banned deserved it, but I am still confused about much.
I've come to a few conclusions and have other questions open in mind.
I am 90% sure that the reason taunton does not provide reasons for banning is on the advice of some legal consultant. Maybe jickenshit, but seems realistic to me. Or that they just don't have the time and inclination. Or both.
The biggest thing that bothers me is that even tho they seems to have been fair with me, this whole moderator thing has been VERY inconsistant from person to person, and incident to incident, and month to month.
I conclude several things from that.
There are more than one moderator and they do not all have the same interpretation of the orders from on high.
( I add to that, the item Peg had earlier that it appears that somebody who is a regular at BT might also have much input, and possibly power to bann or control threads)
There is somebody above the mods in authority at Taunton who occasionally makes demands of them. I don't mind a benovolent dictator at all. The problem is that this person appears to be less than benovolent.
There is also so much complaining by members that the mods simply don't have time to read a whole context to make a just determination, so they are simplifying their work by the recent wholesale slaughter, leaving all the blood and guts on the floor.
This last is the one that BT members can do the most about amoung ourselves.
First, to give less reason for anyone to complain about us. Second, to not make any complaints. But I suspect that those who have been guilty of that see themselves as some sort of holy warriors or are OCD and paranoid and taking too many thing personally. whoever they are, they are unlikely to stop until and unless the mods tell them to please shut up.
Maybe I'm wrong on much of this, but it is a puzzle that my poor mind keeps trying to solve. The problem is like most of the jigsaw puzzles in our house - too many pieces are missing.
Oh well.
--------------------
.
Excellence is its own reward!
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 971
Loc: Rhode Island
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geesh.....chill, gurl....
u no i luv you dearly... but it's always
"to the ramparts"
what's your goal?
to blow the place up..... or continue the community?
me, i want to continue the community
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 971
Loc: Rhode Island
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eric... you don't have to respond....
then those things become the sound of one hand clapping
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Now, that's what I calls me some moderating.
That's how I've seen it done on other forums.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Now, that's what I calls me some moderating.
That's how I've seen it done on other forums.
Mods should be chosen from amongst regular members (how else can they tell who is who and judge intent?)
This would also reduce mistrust of the moderators.
Mods would then be answerable to Forum Admin.
Quote:
geesh.....chill, gurl....
u no i luv you dearly... but it's always
"to the ramparts"
what's your goal?
to blow the place up..... or continue the community?
me, i want to continue the community
No Justice, No Peace!
Quote:
Your actions in the Tavern belittling those who are no longer there reveal you to be the kind of person just brave enough to hang ont
o a dog leash attached to a manacled prisoner.
I don't win all the battles i engage in, but i'm not a coward. Sometimes it's just the company i get to keep that makes it worth the trouble it is to be me, but it suits.
We have in common that we both agree my writing is wasted on you. Expect a refund check in a few days for exactly what you invested in it. Now shoo.
I love to hear you talk this way
I've watched you riding everyday
And something in me yearns to win
Such a cold and very lonesome heroine
-Mike Rooney
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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I'll have to agree with CU2. I participate in several forums, BT being one of my favorites. In each of these forums a moderator or several are active participants. And moderators have shiny sheriffs badges so everyone knows who they are. BT is the only one where moderators are occasional, stealth, or only come by and peek inside when some glass is being broken. If it's a money making vehicle you'd think they would do a better job of monitoring it.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I have the same experience in other forums.
The difference w/ BT is that the moderating is an assigned "task" to someone in the office, instead of a genuine interest in the forum subject matter.
Most of my other forums are not connected to a money making venture. And if they are they are e.g. Boating, sailing, etc where the money making part of it is still interested in the subject. Taunton is just selling words. They don't care what subject the words talk about.
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Question, has anyone from BT been kicked out for giving poor building advice, or name calling over the screw/nails debate?
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Quote:
Question, has anyone from BT been kicked out for giving poor building advice.....?
I once emailed the mods about a post made by a guy named GHR. He claimed to be an engineer, but gave some advice in a post that was TOTALLY wrong. I asked them to remove or edit the one post only.
I got a reply saying something to the effect that since others had spoken up disagreeing with him that they felt like it was O.K. to leave it up.
I don't ever recall even a single post being removed due to bad advice.
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.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Frenchy's still there.
So I guess the answer would be no.
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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I would think from a legal POV that unmonitored bad advice would be far worse than the heated discussions in the tav.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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No one ratted you out; i can still read the Tavern by other means. I was raised by wolves, but they were smart wolves.
You need to have the last word against RJW and Andy? A Tavern cookie is a measure of your self-esteem? Ho boy...i'll go wipe my tears and blow my nose while you pull your pants back up!
Have you rec'd that refund check yet?
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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NO offense was taken, so i guess i must be dense as a post, too. Those were some strange times, eh? Kinda like these ones, hopefully with a better outcome.
I'd ask if you want to shake on it, but i get this picture of water flying from your beard when i do that, so let's just cyber hug, OK?
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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You're right.
Let's all sue Frenchy.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I'm just joking.
I agree wit what you're layin' down brother. The Tav is nothing more than off-topic opinion. Don't see who it was hurtin'. Oh well, I seem to be a little happier over here without someone looking over my shoulder all the time.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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You're right, Mike, and i actually weighed that before i posted. I tried to moderate between Eric and JHole, thought we'd made some progress before Eric decided to do the neener neener thing here as well as at the Tavern. I'll let the posts stand as evidence, but i can change...if i have to. [nod to Red Green]
Gad, you're starting to look like Fred MacMurray...
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Knark.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Cohen can write, can't he? I esp like the question he asks at the end:
I saw her wince
I saw her cry
Saw the glory in her eye -
Myself, i long for love and light
But must it come so cruel
Must it be so bright?
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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What the hell did I do now?
I was just trying to help.
Man I suck.
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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FWIW - I got it also in the Election Eve Massacre
Too bad - it was basically a good community and I miss it.
OTOH, there was some stuff I won't miss.
See ya all later.
Bob
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mhole
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 7
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Don't be so hard on yourself.
You seem to be a very likeable guy, and a positive influence on all who know you.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Quote:
You seem to be a very likable guy, and a positive influence on all who know you.
I about spewed diet pepsi on the screen when I read that.
It was right under the post by rjw, and I thought for a second that you were talking to him.
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.
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SquarePeg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 48
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The really funny part is that I think Jeff is both JHOLE and MHOLE.
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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I've seen enough "bad advice" to choke a mule with, plus all the advice that is against codes.
I don't think they should be yanked.
I do believe in buyer beware when you're getting free advice.
EngineerGuy had a great post IIRC "I'm an engineer, but not your engineer"
During the primaries I had a linked tagline supporting Fred Thompson I deleted manually when posting outside of the Tavern, but it did slip a couple of times.
I was asked to remove it when posting outside of the Tavern through a private Email. I had no problem with that notification & complied willingly & agreed with their point.
The notice I got about being banned for 2 weeks for my use of the term "pillow biter" when talking about a certain congressman was warranted & I did step over the line.
The notice I got 30 minutes later stating I was banned for life was over the top IMHO. But like I said many times their site their rules. But I thought their rules was the progressive 2 week, 30 day, 1 year etc etc etc banning.
Personally I really don't care about FHB or Taunton, but I have made friends over the last 3 years, & I enjoy talking about my work with others that want to know how the world of highrise construction works, & yes a lot of those friends are left of center.
I exchanged a few Emails with Andy & the reported banning of him for "racist" stuff shed some light on why I was banned for life. I made a comment on Obama about melanin & having thick skin---- It was a play on words.
I will admit & agree that I am NOT racially sensitive, but racist I am not, to the point I will usually call anyone out when they use the term "black point of view" or anything like that IMO color of skin does not effect how the brain works, nor athletic ability.
I was asked by many to create a new screen name & jump back in------ if it was just the tavern I probably would, for the tavern IMO is usually just a bunch of junk to blow of steam & chuckle about jokes.
I don't think I would feel right about creating a name & bypassing the spirit of the websites rules about being banned & posting in the other threads.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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There seems to be some confusion. I stepped into a JHole/Eric brawl yesterday, suggesting we focus on the fact that Taunton is the problem instead of pointing fingers at each other. I then neglected to take my own absolutely stellar advice bec i'm congenitally unable to keep my hands off a good analogy.
You, on the other hand, have been acting like a prince since. You OK??
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Incidentally, one of the things i did with all my new-found time off the board is clean out my desk.
I have three, unopened, Epson-brand, ink-jet cartridges to give away, one black and two color. These are the real Chinese ones, not those Pakistani knock-offs!
If you have a use, ping me at cmiller at cybernet1 dot com and i'll be happy to send them to escape feeling guilty for tossing these spendy little dudes in the trash where they would probably be sent back to China for disassembling.
Numbers on the black-ink cartridge are:
S020187 and 2228HA
and on the two color carts:
S020191/IC3CL01 and 3121HA
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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This thread is all over the place (as usual).
Is there any likelihood that we will eventually reach any kind of consensus?
I mean, are we boycottin'? Are we coolin'off any?
Or, are we gonna smoke 'em?
The Fool
- Pádraic H. Pearse
Since the wise men have not spoken, I speak that am only a fool;
A fool that hath loved his folly,
Yea, more than the wise men their books or their counting houses or their quiet homes,
Or their fame in men's mouths;
A fool that in all his days hath done never a prudent thing,
Never hath counted the cost, nor recked if another reaped
The fruit of his mighty sowing, content to scatter the seed;
A fool that is unrepentant, and that soon at the end of all
Shall laugh in his lonely heart as the ripe ears fall to the reaping-hooks
And the poor are filled that were empty,
Tho' he go hungry.
I have squandered the splendid years that the Lord God gave to my youth
In attempting impossible things, deeming them alone worth the toil.
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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I noticed that when I'm "logged in" on taunton I can't access any of the forums.
So I tried a little experiment.
Had my buddy "PlumbBillProTempore" access them then Email the web adress, cut & paste then I was in Knots, & cooktime.
Cool, I guess I can talk about my woodworking in Knots & yes I do know how to cook quitewell, so i won't feel like an idiot at cookstalk----- I am going to avoid the more partisan polijive threads as I have seen they can be ruthless ;-)
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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darn, here you are going for a new form of double entendre, and boss adds his impression to make the whole thing funny as 'ell!
--------------------
.
Excellence is its own reward!
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Quote:
No one ratted you out; i can still read the Tavern by other means. I was raised by wolves, but they were smart wolves.
You need to have the last word against RJW and Andy? A Tavern cookie is a measure of your self-esteem? Ho boy...i'll go wipe my tears and blow my nose while you pull your pants back up!
Have you rec'd that refund check yet?
Splintie,
If you will let go, so will I, but I wiil not land first to soften your blow.
FYI, TGNY did rat me, he stated as much in the Tavern. I suppose that by accessing the Tavern "by other means" you may have missed that post. Oh well.
I accepted resonsibility for what I wrote, and if Taunton had canned me for it, I would have accepted it and moved on. It's what's known as personal accountability. Accepting the consequenses of one's actions.
I didn't need to have the last word Splint, you are twisting things yet again. I wanted to, not needed to. Go back and read the post and learn to quote correctly if that is what you wish people to believe you are doing.
Obviously, you once again have nothing of substance to write so you attack me suggesting my self esteem is at stake etc.
That's says volumes about you Splinty. You twist in the wind whenever someone has something to say that you don't like. Nothing meaningful to add, just personal attacks.
Sad thing is, you are obviously smarter than that.
Eric
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Mike,
I wish I had a buck for every post since the joan of arc bar-b-Q at Breaktime.
You, Jeff and I could go somewhere warm and tee it up.
3manleague moved up a day so we would miss the rain. Nice aftn on the links. 13.5 b/4 it got dark.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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I told you exactly what I did with your chicken-shit post, I sent it to Andy. If Andy is a 'slew of people' in your world then so be it. You gotta problem with me, send me a private e-mail and we can meet up, I don't live that far from you, otherwise keep your mouth shut wise guy.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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I'm telling you, charge admission.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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I miss our discussions on Galt ;-)
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Hit a nerve there did I T?
U gotta problem wit me?
No. I don't, but that post was near hysterical.
Wachoo gonna do, break my kneecaps?
Get a grip dude.
And the name calling and personal accusations from you and Splinty. Again, tells volumes about your character. You don't see that in my posts.
You guys really shouldn't let such a little chicken shit get to you.
Edited by Eric_Paulson (Tue Nov 11 2008 10:40 PM)
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Ah yeah. It's starting to feel like home.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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I figured that would be your response.
Anybody who mouths off about me 'hits a nerve'.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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Trouble follows me wherever I go.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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I gotta check out.
I'm in way over my head here.
Way too intellectual; what with all the name calling and personal attacks and accussations.
Edited by Eric_Paulson (Tue Nov 11 2008 10:43 PM)
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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That was a statement, not mouthing off.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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Quote:
You guys really shouldn't let such a little chicken shit get to you.
How true. I will endeavor to ignore your insipid remarks in the future.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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EEEEEEEEaaaasy there Francis.
Toprol is your friend.
--------------------
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Now we're getting somewhere!
Certainly something we can both agree on.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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"and don't call me Francis"
Isn't this what you wanted, a no holds barred forum.
You said far worse to SP and she hardly batted an eye at you.
I'm confused. I'm going to go log on to Webkinz with my daughter, at least I know the ground rules there.
Maybe I'll be the first to be banned from QT.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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You two really need to go give Buttkick some thig to read.
http://pol.iboards.us/
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Where's Smitty when you need him?
Gentlemen.
Neutral corners till ..............
I don't know, but lets just take a break on this.
For the good of my mental health and physical well being.
thanks.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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http://pol.iboards.us/
Have at it.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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Thanks, but no thanks, I'm not into gay bars (NTTIAWWT). It's creepy over there and there are no girls.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Post deleted by remember
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Thanks, but no thanks, I'm not into gay bars (NTTIAWWT). It's creepy over there and there are no girls.
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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mhole
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 7
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Geeze.
Someone's a little aggressive. Even with options.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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done.
I was here for the entertainment value originally.
Became a reality show too quickly.
See what you get for inviting me?
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Eric, who loves ya?
I mean besides your wife and immediate relatives.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Hey Mike,
Please remove or change the #%!&*^$ in #%!&*^$ tards.
thanks.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I didn't even sign in with a new identity yesterday and feel like i somehow let the team down. I'd like to say i'm boycotting Taunton, but i've been noticing it's more like...well, it's like writing that Dear-John letter to someone who was great in bed, but would never bring a bottle of wine when he came to dinner. You miss the sizzle a lot at first, but then notice there are fewer dishes to do, no splash on the cabinet next to the toilet, then you start cleaning the gutters and next thing you know you've lost ten pounds and picked up a diploma in International Studies.
Besides, i've decided to devote myself utterly to someone who quotes both Cohen and Pearse. There was a boy from Ulster who played uillean pipes and introduced me to Paddy Kavanagh's "Raglan Road", a cautionary tale about icon building in case this thing between us doesn't work out:
On Raglan Road on an autumn day
I saw her first and knew
That her dark hair would weave a snare
That I might someday rue
I saw the danger
Yet I walked
Along the enchanted way
And I said, let grief be a fallen leaf
At the dawning of the day
On Grafton Street in November
We tripped lightly along the ledge
Of the deep ravine
Where can be seen
The worth of passion's pledge
The Queen of Hearts still making tarts
And I not making hay
Oh I loved too much
And by such and such
Is happiness thrown away
I gave her gifts of the mind
I gave her the secret sign
That's known to the artists
Who have known the true gods of sound and stone
And word and tint, I did not stint,
I gave her poems to say.
With her own name there and her own dark hair
Like clouds over fields of May.
On a quiet street where old ghosts meet
I see her walking now
Away from me so hurriedly my reason must allow
That I had wooed not as I should
A creature made of clay -
When the angel woos the clay he'd lose
His wings at the dawning of the day.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
I miss our discussions on Galt ;-)
Think we ought to tell him that Objectivism and Christianity are mutually exclusive?
Somebody tell me if another thread besides this one starts anywhere...
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Thanks Mike.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I don't know what the hell else you're talkin' about, but wine's cool with me.
I thought you liked the beer.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Quote:
Eric, who loves ya?
I mean besides your wife and immediate relatives.
The chosen few Calvin............or the unfortunate few. I forget.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
I thought you liked the beer.
Beer...wine...chocolates from the Dollar Store...i'm easy.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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I've not the wind to play the pipes or even a penny-whistle, but I muck about on guitar a bit.
I'd have posted this at BT today if I still thought there was any point.
WHEN MARGARET WAS ELEVEN
(Pete St. John)
My father sailed away, and the band played tunes of glory
A giant man with ribbons and bedeviled dignity.
A regimental sergeant the back bone of the Empire
For God and righteous glory, bound for High Germany.
Chorus:
Sweet Lord I was just seven, when Margaret was eleven,
They served us war for breakfast and soldiers songs for tea
Your father's gone campaignin' was a way of not explainin'
That soldiers are the living proof of our inhumanity
My childhood passed away midst tales and lurid stories
Of manufactured glories and inhuman gallantry
I asked "when is war over?" But no one deemed to answer me
And Margaret played the dreaded tune called High Germany.
Chorus:
Sweet Lord I was just seven, when Margaret was eleven,
They served us war for breakfast and soldiers songs for tea
Your father's gone campaignin' was a way of not explainin'
That soldiers are the living proof of our inhumanity
My father made it home but he came without his reason
Two eyes of molten madness a senseless fool of war
He's just a child - my mother cried to be dressed in full regalia
And paraded as a hero home from High Germany.
Chorus:
Sweet Lord I was just seven, when Margaret was eleven,
They served us war for breakfast and soldiers songs for tea
Your father's gone campaignin' was a way of not explainin'
That soldiers are the living proof of our inhumanity
There were tunes of glory for Margaret and me
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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It was pretty tame wasn't it?
I've had it in the back of my mind, that one thing Galt and certain characters did in the storey line that made my point was to opt out, go underground if you will.
So is quittin time Galtville?
Hey look - over to the right - there is a new icon ad up. Some guy that does copper work...
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"tell him that Objectivism and Christianity are mutually exclusive"
One of the things you were missing is that you were trying to talk objectivism while I was on john Galt and his actions -0 or lack of them.
I attempted to make a point that a certain kind of person KNOWS what their limit is for tolerating certain things and knows when they will opt out. How interesting is it that with regards to the structure of Taunton, this incident has helped you define where that line is for yourself?
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Beer...wine...chocolates from the Dollar Store...i'm easy.
We know
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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No hard feelings.
I wonder what Ayn Rand's take would have been on Joe the Galt, uhh, Asterix the Gaul, uhh...Joe the Hartmann...uhh...
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Thank-you; i can't recall ever hearing that. Happy Veterans Day, eh?
I do know "the dreaded tune called High Germany" which conveniently has my name in it:
Oh colleen, love, oh colleen love, the rout has now begun,
And I must go a-marching to the beating of a drum.
Come, dress your self all in your best and come along with me
And I'll take you to the wars, me love, in High Germany.
Your song is very much in the spirit of "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" about the blood-price the Aussie troops paid at Gallipoli to erase the stain of their convict heritage:
How well I remember that terrible day,
Our blood stained the sand and the water
And of how in that hell that they called Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter.
Johnny Turk, he was ready, he primed himself well.
He showered us with bullets, he rained us with shells,
And in five minutes flat, he'd blown us all to hell,
Nearly blew us back home to Australia.
And the band played Waltzing Matilda,
As we stopped to bury our slain,
We buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs,
And we started all over again.
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FatRoman
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Isn't Kavanagh splendid? I still remember chancing upon Epic while on my way to Donegal.
I have lived in important places, times
When great events were decided, who owned
That half a rood of rock, a no-man's land
Surrounded by our pitchfork-armed claims...
Had forgotten that he was responsible for Raglan Road, too.
The Van Morrison/Chieftans version is lovely.
Thanks for causing me to dig my Kavanagh book out
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Armistice Day to the rest of the world.
This is completely OT, but I like
An Old Woman of the Roads.
-PADRAIC COLUM
O, to have a little house!
To own the hearth and stool and all!
The heaped-up sods upon the fire,
The pile of turf against the wall!
To have a clock with weights and chains
And pendulum swinging up and down!
A dresser filled with shining delph,
Speckled and white and blue and brown!
I could be busy all the day
Clearing and sweeping hearth and floor,
And fixing on their shelf again
My white and blue and speckled store!
I could be quiet there at night
Beside the fire and by myself,
Sure of a bed, and loath to leave
The ticking clock and the shining delph!
Och I but I'm weary of mist and dark,
And roads where there's never a house or bush,
And tired I am of bog and road,
And the crying wind and the lonesome hush!
And I am praying to God on high,
And I am praying Him night and day,
For a little house--a house of my own--
Out of the wind's and the rain's way.
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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It seems you enjoyed the John Galt character without delving too deeply into the philosophy that created him. I look at him as a product of preceding thought while you take him at face value, so the discussion bogged down when one side knows Galt represents a paradigm and the other considers him simply an action figure. It also explains the dissonance between your professed beliefs and Rand's philosophy. As we say at my house, "Entschuldigung!"
I don't think banning helped define for me where the line was as it wasn't my decision. I would have stayed and tried to keep the trains running, given the option. After this latest train wreck, i've had time to take stock of whether i want to work for an outfit that doesn't maintain its track, though.
I think what caused a lot of fur to fly is that you and some others are of the unfounded belief that only you conservatives like pony, Mooney, and you are "a certain kind of person KNOWS what their limit is for tolerating certain things". That's not a conservative or liberal trait at all, but a human one.
As to whether this is Galtville? As i recall, it was an exclusive, gated community, LOL!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Ya know, it was getting to be a lot of hard work to keep up with the mud slinging in that thread, like a one armed man trying to win a snowball fight with a whole gang of neighborhood kids, being as how you two were tag teaming me andI was on dial-up. Every darn time I made one responce, there were three more to answer to. I about wore the letters of my enter key on the keyboard.
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"I don't think banning helped define for me where the line was as it wasn't my decision."
not the banning, but the situation created a need for you to decide what YOU will do or not do about it, as it has for each of us and the very reason for this thread here.
--------------------
.
Excellence is its own reward!
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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No one was tag teaming you, just sometimes great minds think alike (or conversely fools rarely differ). If you want to see tag teaming, go back and look at some of the ambushes I've been through.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
Thanks for causing me to dig my Kavanagh book out
Happy to have caused that! I have Van singing the version you mentioned on vinyl, but Luke Kelly's (Dubliners) interpretation is still the one that makes my scalp prickle. I've heard there's a Joan Osborne version that is great...have to go check YouTube for that...
Nope, not there. We'll have to imagine it. Mark Knopfler's version is good; i'll pass on Sinead and Mary Black doing it.
I saw Seamus Heaney at a reading at UM in Missoula and didn't wash my ears for weeks after. I have a copy of Liam Clancy (IIRC) doing his "Requiem for the Croppies", gut-powerful:
The pockets of our greatcoats full of barley...
No kitchens on the run, no striking camp...
We moved quick and sudden in our own country.
The priest lay behind ditches with the tramp.
A people hardly marching... on the hike...
We found new tactics happening each day:
We'd cut through reins and rider with the pike
And stampede cattle into infantry,
Then retreat through hedges where cavalry must be thrown.
Until... on Vinegar Hill... the final conclave.
Terraced thousands died, shaking scythes at cannon.
The hillside blushed, soaked in our broken wave.
They buried us without shroud or coffin
And in August... the barley grew up out of our grave.
(Interesting...i had always heard the word as "terrorist" instead of "terraced" before looking it up just now. It seemed odd, since the Irish were in their own country, but makes more sense now...in a 'terrible beauty' sort of way.)
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Jeff_J_Buck
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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Not sure yet.
Have to figure if I shoulda set the clocks an hour behind or an hour ahead.
this new universe is all so new ...
Jeff
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Dino
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Quote:
I'm not under the impression, as Dino appears to think, that i own Taunton.
I made a general observation about the behaviour of a group of people, in the hopes that it would help some of those people to "see themselves as others see them." I was most careful not to name anybody in particular, because I almost never indulge in personal attacks, even when they are clearly warranted.
I also did not say, nor imply, that all of those recently banned had indulged in the infantile behaviour of which I complained. It is apparent that some of them were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Hell, I don't even know who all of them are. I deliberately left it vague, so that no one who does not merit that criticism would be tarred by it.
And just so you know, I was not specifically thinking about you when I wrote that post.
But since you seem to think I was talking about you, and since you're always right about everything, that kinda makes my efforts to spare you moot, doesn't it?
You want feathers with that?
Edited by Dino (Wed Nov 12 2008 03:30 AM)
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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These are the real Chinese ones, not those Pakistani knock-offs!
snorK* Now that's funny right there!
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
not the banning, but the situation created a need for you to decide what YOU will do or not do about it, as it has for each of us and the very reason for this thread here.
It's just a reaction to a situation, like finding frost on the windscreen means you have to scrape it off. The following analogy is too dramatic for my purposes and is ripe for being quoted out of context, but i sense some of the relief of an abused spouse who's gotten clear of the relationship. She's willing to suffer indignities in return for security; i've been willing to suffer arbitrary punishment in order to have fraternity.
I've simply decided not to insult my intelligence by typing "ghey" or "Natzi" ever again, even if the Gestapo were to tolerate my presence. There's nothing at all creative about that, while creativity is the essence of, the raison d'etre for, a John Galt.
The original Romans of Fine Woodworking fame were Galtish. The current crowd is why Rand argued against inherited wealth. The org isn't managing very well at the bottom nor apparently at the top, leading me to the conclusion that the true cause of this Obamassacre isn't likely a group of people discussing Palin's wardrobe, but rather a systemic problem in management.
Edited by splintergroupie (Wed Nov 12 2008 04:11 AM)
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
And just so you know, I was not specifically thinking about you when I wrote that post.
But since you seem to think I was talking about you, and since you're always right about everything, that kinda makes my efforts to spare you moot, doesn't it?
You're an authoritarian whose position on those of us not readily coming to heel is harsh and unnuanced. Given my brazen re-entry to BT at will, it's not far-fetched to think i might be included in the crowd of people you suspect think that they own Taunton, even if you didn't specifically call me out. I hope that explains things, though it probably won't do much for that log in your eye. Peace, dammit.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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These are free, Rez....aren't you even tempted, even a little bit??? You might find the matching printer in some alley... <G>
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Mistah_T
Reged: May 19 2002
Posts: 135
Loc: Elmira, NY
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Gesundhiet!!
--------------------
Do NOT try this at home!!
I am a trained Professional!
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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I think we're on triple daylight savings time.
Edited by CU2 (Wed Nov 12 2008 10:11 AM)
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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You can find this setting:
Current server time is: 11/12/08 10:16 AM
Choose your time offset in hours (..,-2,-1,0,1,2,..)
by going to MY HOME up top of the screen.
The display preferences should be down the bottom of the page. The default is 3 hrs later than est. This is the special Back to the Future feature.
If for some reason display preferences isn't visible-click on your name. That should expand the page.
I think.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 971
Loc: Rhode Island
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well, it's 7:29 here.... and it posts as 10:30.......i guess that's 3 hours of my life i'll never get back
if i forgot to mention it...
have a wonderful life
Edited by MikeSmith (Wed Nov 12 2008 10:32 AM)
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Thanks Cal. I'd already figured it out and changed it. I'm starting to get the hang of this format and liking it better.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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The one thing that seems to be a bother is to only be able to attach 1 pic per post.
Don't know if that's a hard problem or if we can buy our way to higher capabilities. I'll help buy if we're going to stay.
Wish there was a more definitive reference to the original post being replied to, I can see future misunderstandings. Always liked that feature in BT.Maybe have to get to use the quote thing more.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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The only way to "see" the post replied to is to click on the highlighted name at the top of the post. That'll take you back to the post that is being replied to.
now that was a clear as mud explanation.
Re: TAVERN OUTCASTS CHECK IN: [Re: JHole ]
#10575 - 11/12/08 08:28 AM (205.188.116.200) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Edited by calvin (Wed Nov 12 2008 11:30 AM)
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Hey Mike - how do you embed pix here?
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Egggggggccccellent.
Tanks.
Any good tips on multi- pics Smarty pants?
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I miss our discussions on Galt ;-)
Think we ought to tell him that Objectivism and Christianity are mutually exclusive?
Somebody tell me if another thread besides this one starts anywhere...
I was waiting for someone to bring that up. Didn't want it to be the resident evangelical atheist, ya know. <g>
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Attach file-you got that one down.
Open Attachment in new window. Copy the code.
Edit your original post-Place cursor where you want picture.
Hit-Image.
Paste code into Image box that comes up.
Code will appear with some goofy stuff at each end.
Preview post-should have pic in it.
Continue. 
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
Edited by calvin (Wed Nov 12 2008 02:19 PM)
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Quote:
Any good tips on multi- pics Smarty pants?
You can host pictures at places like imagevenue.com. It will give you 4 options for links. Use the 2nd one, called: "Hotlink - A clickable thumbnail on a Forum or Message Board".
It will come out as a thumbnail, like this:
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.
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Like this?
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Hey Mike - how do you embed pix here?
I use ImageShack. Copy/paste code directly into the message like this
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Your tagline: Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
In english: My S' Heart; open has Your Voice
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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frammer53
Reged: Apr 12 2008
Posts: 14
Loc: utica, NY
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No Hard Feelings...
The election day is over,
The talking is done.
My party lost,
your party won.
So let us be friends,
Let arguments pass.
I'll hug my elephant,
You kiss your ass.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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And I thought that you read everything.
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
My heart opens to your voice
It is an aria from the opera Samson et Dalila
by Camille Saint-Saëns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_et_Dalila
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9piRiiZ0C4Q
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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No reply to 'All' huh?
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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A pretty interesting boycott/statement would be if no one answered any questions on BT for a month in the general folders, and all the newbies questions went unanswered.
I know, it'll never happen.
Just sayin.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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I see no point in postin' there if none I care about are there.
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Where'd you copy and paste that from?
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Quote:
A pretty interesting boycott/statement would be if no one answered any questions on BT for a month in the general folders, and all the newbies questions went unanswered.
That's originally what I was after. But we seem to have degenerated from talking about the ban to mostly political bickering now. So it would seem like the concept of a "cooling off period" is gonna happen now by default.
--------------------
.
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Use the quick reply.
There's a button on every post, or you can just scroll to the bottom of the page and use the quick reply, already waiting there.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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jjwalters here......on the outside looking in
--------------------
thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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boycott
Users may choose only one (11 total votes)
yes
6 55%
no
5 45%
cooling off
Users may choose only one (15 total votes)
yes
12 80%
no
3 20%
something else
Users may choose only one (9 total votes)
yes
3 33%
no
6 67%
Looks like cooling got the most votes.
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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Tried using quick reply several times, get 'form is no longer valid'.
Anyway, still no way to direct response to 'ALL'.
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Works for me.
You must not be holding your tounge right.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Replying "to all" is not a function we can do on this forum software.
There is no way for me to make the forum do that.
You're just going to have to boycott us.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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Well, I do boycott all the best places. :-)
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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By the way, your avatar is just a red X to me, what's up with that?
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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The red x was better.
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Whatchootalkinboutwillis ???
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Just got an email from Bobbys. He's thinking that he got kicked off of BT now too. I thought the banns were done with for now.
Or maybe he's mistaken?
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.
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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Bobbys was one of the first casualties. He got it a few days before the big "banning".
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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I haven't read through this whole thread but of course I DO have an opinion.
1. I personally don't think anybody did any deed evil enough to get bumped like we did
2. This is an extremely important American election.....what the hell does anybody expect? The same stuff was going on all across the nation. Passion is a good thing!
3. Ok...the Tavern belongs to Taunton yadda yadda yadda.BUT
Anybody , regardless of wealth or power, who takes such a high handed approach to a loyal group of gabbers like us is beyond understanding the humanity of the situation.
Whoever is sitting in their ivory tower making the decisions (and I doubt it's the mods) is a sorry SOB in my opinion and I'd be more than happy to tell him/her that to his/her face)
Boycott? forget about it
Cool off.....? That may work, but if there's any ass kissing to be done it ain't coming from me (though I would except an apology I suppose)
In the real world I doubt the sheepdip in charge cares and would be more than happy to see us all gone.
One more thing: Did any of you guys get into the reality of Pete's thread about his dad? Those replies are not from enemies they are heart felt and caring responses to a guy who you just minutes ago may have been calling a jerk.........
You guys are a somewhat family......and in the real world you all love each other......even Bob.
The guy in the tower wearing the tight white collar don't understand that, nor could he cause he has his bottom line to far up his ass to see straight......
So I'd say to him Give me more (the same as before all this went down will do) freedom in the Tavern or stick the whole thing up your tight white ass.......sorry if I offended someone.
--------------------
thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
well, it's like writing that Dear-John letter to someone who was great in bed, but would never bring a bottle of wine when he came to dinner. You miss the sizzle a lot at first, but then notice there are fewer dishes to do, no splash on the cabinet next to the toilet, then you start cleaning the gutters and next thing you know you've lost ten pounds and picked up a diploma in International Studies.
ROFLOL
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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Hi Bob
It' s kinda great ta see you here.
And we are going to elect Colleen "Queen of QT"
But just when are the elections?
...<wink!>...
Great you're here.
drf
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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My hat is better then your hat...
Newf
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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I agree !!!
I have been looking for your hat for years !
Seriously.
Where did you get it ?
What did it cost ?
What is it called ?
Seems I can't even get a concensus of opinion on what the hat is called. I always called it a fedora, but when I say that, I either get funny looks, or funky looking hats...
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Thanks for the time-difference instructions. I found when i was at that page that i could also reset the posts-per-page to a higher number. Cool!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Logic & Christianity are far from exclusive, tho there are parts of objectivism that don't fit
--------------------
.
Excellence is its own reward!
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
I was waiting for someone to bring that up. Didn't want it to be the resident evangelical atheist, ya know. <g>
I'm trying to imagine the baptisms your people have.
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Quote:
A pretty interesting boycott/statement would be if no one answered any questions on BT for a month in the general folders, and all the newbies questions went unanswered.
I know, it'll never happen.
Just sayin.
Yeah, the problem is that A FAR higher percentage of the answers will be rediculous DIY with false info, false assumptions, and bad advice that costs poor innocents and the rep of the forum. Another step towards another DIY masturbatory insemination
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Quote:
A pretty interesting boycott/statement would be if no one answered any questions on BT for a month in the general folders, and all the newbies questions went unanswered.
I know, it'll never happen.
Just sayin.
Yeah, the problem is that A FAR higher percentage of the answers will be rediculous DIY with false info, false assumptions, and bad advice that costs poor innocents and the rep of the forum. Another step towards another DIY masturbatory insemination
Who will know any difference?
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
One more thing: Did any of you guys get into the reality of Pete's thread about his dad?
Nice that TPTB didn't kick his thread to the Tavern yet, so he has more than a handful cheering him on.
I used a pseudonym and opined in one of the Tavern Access threads that got resurrected that Pete's thread was a better indicator of what our community is about, despite what the election stuff brought out.That thread was a few years old, but the whole was quickly deleted after my post.
It's deliciously ironic that any threads in Forum Suggestions or similar folders get deleted or closed in a matter of minutes. They've countered my pseudonyms each time, yet they say they can't afford the effort to moderate. "If you don't have the time to do it right, how are you going to find the time to do it over?"
Ah, well, it's a cooked goose.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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You absolutely MUST hang here! I thought my joke just went into the ether.
It sounded earlier like you were just...leaving. You may not ban yourself until we take a vote on it and come to a unanimous accord.
There, that's my first executive directive on behalf of the American people there as SplinterQueenie a true American hero there.
Now to get a new set of overalls and matching tiara at QT's expense...
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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I'm not banned, as i wasn't there, if you want my id, password. Also have one for Bart Simpson, login JackieT. I also have Kelly's, Key's, ...
I don't need them. they don't want them. This is all so sad.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
Logic & Christianity are far from exclusive, tho there are parts of objectivism that don't fit
Yeah, i've been trying to tell him that for years...
The part of Objectiivism that doesn't fit, however, would be the 100% part. God as anything besides the individual is a complete non-starter for Rand.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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ROAR! I just set that as my desktop.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I only checked back in today to see if my Electronic Cat Trap thread or any others need answering back, but it looks like they've been euthanized. I guess the Hoophouse 2 thread will go here next spring when i start up again. Ever make a hoophouse in your garden area, Newf?
I can get into the Tavern with an alt ID, too, but i find my interest rapidly flagging for BT...haven't checked in a few days. I suppose if i need building advice that i can try to use the search function, but i'm pretty sure i won't be able to tell if it's turned off for me or not.
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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We really don't have an active Hoop community here, Colleen, since "The Big Hunt Of '03." it wasn't pheasant. Er...pleasant. Blood. guts. feathers. you know.
We have used the white cloth thingies [that is a technical term] sold by Johnny's Seeds in Maine...said to increase the growing season by a month on each end.
But then we had to go out and do what we do for money... will get back when we can ....
But i can still hear them..."hoop...hoop...hoop..."
LOL!
Love ya!
Newf...just tryin' to have me some fun...
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Scarecrow
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 27
Loc: Portland, Oregon USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I was waiting for someone to bring that up. Didn't want it to be the resident evangelical atheist, ya know. <g>
I'm trying to imagine the baptisms your people have.
Something to do with baby oil, wine and being neeked, don't remeber it's all a blurr.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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Jeff:
Yes, it is a Fedora.
I received it from Kelly last month, on her return from TO,[Toronto, Ont, Canada] where she attended a wedding. Which I did not. I find they suck. weddings, not hats. She hates the Baseball caps i have worn all my life, having been born with one on my noggin . So she found this one...and it is the best. I wear it everywhere.
Including the airfare , Hotel, taxis, Male Escort, Liquor, shopping, tips, Much tasty food, pay-for-view porn, some new hand guns, the hat was around...$4000.00 + change.
From the french: "to have a hat on one's head"[I made that up]
The word fedora comes from the title of an 1882 play by Victorian Sardou. Princess Fédora, the heroine of the play, wore a hat similar to a fedora. In the early part of the twentieth century, the fedora was popular in cities for its stylishness, ability to protect the wearer's head from the wind and weather, and the fact that it could be rolled up when not in use. Since the early part of the 20th century, many Haredi and other Orthodox Jews have worn black fedoras and continue to this day.
A fedora is a soft felt hat that is creased lengthwise down the crown and pinched in the front on both sides. Similar hats with a C-crown (with an indentation for the head in the top of the crown) are occasionally called fedoras. The brim goes all the way around, and often there will be a hat band as well. A trilby hat is somewhat similar to a fedora, but typically has a shorter brim, and the back of the brim is distinctively more sharply upturned as a result.
The term fedora was in use as early as 1891. Beginning in the 20th century, the fedora came into use as an upper-class clothing accessory. Hats that resemble the soft felt version are often called fedoras even if they are made of straw or twill. Fedoras did not start to become widespread until the late 1910s. Its popularity soared, and eventually it eclipsed the similar-looking Homburg by the 1930s. Fedoras can be found in nearly any color imaginable, but black, grey, and tan/brown are the most popular.
The hat is sometimes associated with Prohibition-era gangsters and the detectives who sought to bring them to justice. In Hollywood movies of the 1940s, characters often wore a fedora, particularly when playing private detectives, gangsters, or other "tough guy" roles. A trench coat was frequently part of the costume, a notable example being Humphrey Bogart's character in Casablanca. The fedora is widely recognized with the characters of The Blues Brothers, Indiana Jones, and Freddy Krueger. The fedora is closely associated with film noir characters. In the case of action/adventure films, such as old "B"-movies, and the Indiana Jones series they inspired, the fedora served the practical purpose of hiding the face sufficiently to allow doubles to perform the more dangerous stunts seamlessly.
Like the bowler hat, the fedora fell out of usage and popularity during the late 1950s and early 1960s. The hat began to lose favor even earlier on the west coast of the United States, which is known for its more casual clothing. The early 1950s switch from large lapels and ties to thin ones, resulted in shorter-brimmed hats, and this likely played a role in the fedora eventually being deemed a non-essential item. Also playing a part was the shrinking automobiles of the mid-1950s, which often made it difficult to wear a hat while driving. By the early 1970s, the fedora was seen as a dead fashion, typically only worn by older and/or more traditional men. However the fedora has seen a revival in recent fashion seasons. Instead of the tradional grays, browns, and blacks, the fedora now comes in many colors and patterns, the most popular being plaid, but black with white pinstripes are also common. Though the hat was originally for men, it is now more popular for teenage girls.
On January 20, 1961, President John F. Kennedy supposedly chose not to wear a hat to his inauguration. However, there is ample photographic and journalistic evidence that President Kennedy indeed wore a top hat to his inauguration ceremony, only removing it when he gave his speech.[1][2]
Traditionally, when a man doffs this hat, he grasps a fedora by the crown (though it can and does do damage over time). If there is a strong wind it is acceptable to anchor a fedora using the "wind trolley" found on some fedoras. This elastic band can be taken off the crown and wound through the button hole of a suit lapel. Hats, including the fedora, are typically doffed indoors, except in public areas such as lobbies or elevators. If a man wearing a fedora enters into a conversation with a lady, custom dictates that he doff his hat.
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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what our community is about(quote)
Yeah that's what really pisses me off.
Because of the way Taunton is handling this thing I don't think anything you guys do will make much of a difference to them in the long run.........
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
But then we had to go out and do what we do for money...
That's the sort of thing i'm trying desperately to avoid by becoming gainfully unemployed in my hooooophouse.
I go to a grocery store maybe every two weeks these days. If i grow my own popcorn next year, i should be able to cut out the mid-month foray.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
Something to do with baby oil, wine and being neeked, don't remeber it's all a blurr.
Do you have seasonal memberships at your church? I've got the summer months covered, but i find myself in need of salvation when winter sets in.
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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nah, I've come to the realization that there have to be limits to what one gathers and paint and computer stuff don't make the grade unless an immediate need is met by procurring the item.
That and like scarfing non-treated lumber, you have to have a place to put the stuff lest it ruin on you and in so doing you become a waster which is a criminal thing.
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frammer53
Reged: Apr 12 2008
Posts: 14
Loc: utica, NY
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Email, thought it was cute
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
what our community is about(quote)
Yeah that's what really pisses me off.
Because of the way Taunton is handling this thing I don't think anything you guys do will make much of a difference to them in the long run.........
Not very important to me at this point.
With homebuilding taking a dive and production costs going up, it seems likely that subscription and advertising revenue for Taunton is drying up as well and might be contributing to a snarky 'tude. I've read where some CDs that were put out have to be replaced bec they didn't function properly or something...i forget the story now. That sort of mistake sounds expensive.
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shtrum
Reged: Nov 10 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Columbus, OH
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"One more thing: Did any of you guys get into the reality of Pete's thread about his dad? Those replies are not from enemies they are heart felt and caring responses to a guy who you just minutes ago may have been calling a jerk........."
Therein lies the irony. To make everything more wholesome and familial, the BT overlords snuck in, put hoods over grampa, a couple crazy aunts and a handful of cousins, then drove off with them in a black troop carrier.
Show me a family that agrees on everything, doesn't fight or have the odd black sheep, and i'll show you a picture of the Menendez brothers.
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shtrum
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dovetail
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 9
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HiJack here.
How does one start a new thread here?
I wanted to post a joke and can't figure out how to start a thread ?
Help Please.
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Dino
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
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Quote:
I hope that explains things,
You don't have to explain anything to me; only to yourself.
That, of course, is much the harder job. But it is not my problem, because I do not choose to make it mine.
My concern is for the continued existence of BT itself. There are executive elements at Taunton Inc. for whom the value of the entire forums program is regarded with the same gentle gaze Bob Walker bestowed upon Governor Palin during the recent intramural pissing matches. That is not something to be ignored lightly...but ignoring it is precisely what you (and a few others) have been doing whilst publicly beating your bib-covered breast and crying O Shame Great Corporate Satan for Thine Philistinistic Incontinences.
Get over it. You are more than bright enough to know that you and you alone are responsible for your actions and the resulting consequences to yourself.
What I hope to do is call your attention to the consequences your actions are likely have on the rest of us. Your continued 'brazen' use (your word, not mine) of fake identities to flout your banishment may tickle your ego and make you feel like an electronic Freedom Fighter, but unless you know an awful lot more about using proxy servers and brushing over your tracks than the average bear, the 'geek squad' at Taunton will know who you are every time...and know it before you've even finished typing yer password.
More importantly to those of us who are bright enough to refrain from shitting where we live, if this sort of childishness continues it will eventually give the real black hats at Taunton enough ammunition to shut down the whole shebang.
The $64,000 Question is, "Is that what you really want?"
At this point, it would not be hard to convince me that the answer is, "Yes."
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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outside looking in
Savoy Brown
hmmm, 19...72?
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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Quote:
HiJack here.
How does one start a new thread here?
I wanted to post a joke and can't figure out how to start a thread ?
Help Please.
The Back Porch >> Your Shout! Post Previous Index Next Expand
Click on the "post" icon.
It took me a few to figure it out as well.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I'm about as interested in your opinion as i am in posting at Taunton or its continued existence. I met some fine people there whom i will miss very much; i accept the trade-off. Some, like yourself, i will be happy to be shut of.
Since you're aching to lay cards on the table, i'll mention that your narcissistic rant about being a victim of the legal system of Canada that you've shepherded to thousands of posts strikes me as being as whiny a tale of self-imposed woe as i've ever heard. I've no doubt that your charming personality is mainly to credit for your predicament. How did you put it? "You are more than bright enough to know that you and you alone are responsible for your actions and the resulting consequences to yourself."
Jesus, you bore me. And you can't cook for shit, either.
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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you know what Dino?......I was going to share my thoughts with you concerning all this, but can't beat that.....so
Reality: None of this has much to do with the fact that Taunton has rules.........nor that a few guys got a bit to passionate (did I say that is a GOOD thing?) over the recent election.
It has a lot to do with respect though...and I consider this heavy handed approach a bit (WAY) over the top.
I still don't know why most of us were dissed to this point........ you just don't reveal that sort of arrogance unless you think you own the world.
You wanna boot lick, you have the right.
All I want is an apology. (I'm drumming up my mojo as I speak....)
You seem to have the attitude that LOST you the election. :-)
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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Dear Dino......
You know what?
After I read that (bib part)I got a vision of the scene in Dr. Zivago....
where all the fat cats are sitting in the fancy restaurant getting annoyed at the rabble marching down the street.....
little did they know the power of the Proles was about to unleashed upon their lard laden asses..............
Not talking about Taunton now...just that statement. I'm sure you are nicer than that in the real world...
Else you would have probably had yourself head slapped so much by now you would be brain dead.........and unable to write such nonsense
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
Edited by jjwalters (Thu Nov 13 2008 08:42 AM)
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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* * * * *
That be 5 stars!
Printed and on the wall!
The most perfect post award.
[But you should get out of my brain...there is other stuff there that...well...shall we say...is of a more sensitive nature]
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MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 971
Loc: Rhode Island
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dial it down... and don't be using words like "shit" either
we're approaching the grade school at recess level here
and it's unbecomming
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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Well...
as I see it...
That was Dino's 3rd or 4th attack at Colleen.
And if you throw enough rocks...well ya get what ya get back.
If he is so in love with Taunton, well he should stay there. Not here.
This is going to get me a "Bite Me"
...just sayin'...
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dovetail
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 9
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Thanks Bill
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"... becoming gainfully unemployed..."
I like that phrase
Makes about as much sense as you do sometimes, but I like you too
--------------------
.
Excellence is its own reward!
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Your search function here works pretty well. I found 32 uses of the word "shit", including the post above from Dino to me and even some by yourself. As someone said recently, "if the foo shits..."
I explained my previous reference to Dino and offered a truce. He attacked even more vigorously. I've found in life and in cyberspace that sometimes one needs to clear a perimeter.
I often did this with Gabe, as you recall, yet we ended up breaking bread together after the Quebec fest. Gabe was a willing partner in burying that hatchet, signaled by his gracious offer to give me a tour of his city, which i accepted just as graciously. If i see similar respect out of Dino, he will most assuredly receive it from me.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Newf, i got your msg. through the forum yesterday morn and responded through the forum system, but apparently it didn't get to you. I sent my email addy in that: cmilleratcybernet1dotcome. Drop me your current addy there and i'll recap, since i didn't get a copy of my email either.
Basically, the answer was "yes" and telling you how often i held your garden pics in my mind for inspiration as i was working on my place this past summer. There was a fellow from your parts posting as "Island Angus" in a long thread i started on building my hoophouse last spring. Whenever he's post i'd wonder if you guys were acquainted. (Yeah, like someone asking me if i know their sister's roommate who went to university in Missoula. <G>)
Thanks for the support here.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
Makes about as much sense as you do sometimes, but I like you too
I like you, too, Pif, but then i have a thing for older men, you know. <Palinesque wink>
We crafters also had a phrase for what looked to be a non-job to our 9-5 friends: "unemployed with dignity".
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Context, Mike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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My phrase was "Self-Unemployed" when I was asked what I do. Scary, it's getting real.
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Nice that TPTB didn't kick his thread to the Tavern yet, so he has more than a handful cheering him on.
I used a pseudonym and opined in one of the Tavern Access threads that got resurrected that Pete's thread was a better indicator of what our community is about, despite what the election stuff brought out.That thread was a few years old, but the whole was quickly deleted after my post.
I started a thread, quoting my email to Robyn - indicating that I hoped she read the Pete's Dad thread and realized that the political swipes don't show the real story f the community there.
The thread didn't survive.
I wrote: "I hope you will take a moment to read this thread, and see how folks who are "at daggers draw" politically draw together when real needs arise: [link deleted]"
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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I'm not sure whether I'll hang here or not.
I don't have much respect for the folks who seem intent on dissing me, but it gets old after awhile.
Time will tell.
(BTW - on the other hand - after the loss of sizzle diminishes, one also finds one doesn't miss the drying undies hung in the bath, and the drain doesn't clog nearly so often, and there is far less competition for space for the world's record setting attempted mustard collection in the fridge <G>)
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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You need to get tangled up with someone in the medical field!
I'm having dinner tomorrow with the woman who bought my Victorian whom i continue to work maintaining that behemoth. She opened a home health care business almost two years ago (after being fired 3X in a row...sounds familiar), bought her partners out just recently, and now has ~140 employees, with no sign of a slowdown in getting contracts, not even in these times.
It's nice! She can afford me! I think it's my turn to buy dinner, though, lol...
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Wait a minute, it's not clear...which one of you was OCD about the mustard? <g>
I hope that NOBODY leaves, but it seems there is a bit of butt-sniffing going on in this new-fangled Bark Park. Yep, time will tell...
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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You ain't just a-woofin.
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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Hi C
I just did a copy/paste from my sent emails to your reply box on sent message from you from here. Here being QT.
I think
Wish they would invent something you could actually "talk", in real time, to other party of the first part....
Nah...never happen...
Let me know if that worked...
You may have ALL Canadians blocked!!!
Newf...
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Funny thing is another customer just informed me that Soc.Sec sent them a letter, saying "oops, we Fu'ed, and overpaid you, so we need 8,400.00 BACK from you"
Now THAT got them kinda scared. So that is now on hold too..back to my wooden snoflakes if it gets much worse, they were like printing money.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I just emailed you back through the system here and will work on the problem. As i said in that email, it's happened that even someone is my address book had an email blocked out of many that come through fine, and we can't even figure out what part of the offending paragraph triggers it.
This never happened using the PC...maybe i've been [s]Mac'd!
I'm going to send you an email from my Mac and PC both, see if it comes in from either. Be patient...i'm slow...
EDIT: Come to think of it, my luck with all you Canadians has been quite variable, LOL!
Edited by splintergroupie (Thu Nov 13 2008 05:32 PM)
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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One of my galleries is asking for barrettes for the holidays and i'll probably do a few dozen for some walking-around money. It's not the most interesting thing to do, but i got to thinking that they depend on folks like me who have a cheap production item to offer as stocking stuffers, and they cost me nearly nothing to make out of my endless boxes of lazy-susan corners. As you said, "printing money", and it may be worth considering as an item for you to make in the post-Christmas season. I can make about four times as much per hour doing barrettes as making custom furniture, sad but true.
I used to sell lots of jewelry boxes in the $100-$125 range through that gallery, but i'm still not settled in the shop enough to do a production run of 30 or 40 to make it worthwhile. Maybe next summer, for the tourist season...but then the hoophouse[s] will be up and running, and...<G>
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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You make wooden barrettes ?
That's a new one on me. What do they look like?
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.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I don't think i ever took a picture of them bec i never used them in my jury slides. I'll see about remedying that when/if i get the new batch made, OK?
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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I think I am going to write you an Email as soon as I can find a way to translate what is in my head through my fingers to this keyboard here. Got a lot to say, some personal, some critical, some praise.
But the part of it that belongs out ion the open is this -
what in the world are you trying to do gurl?! See how much you can get away with? Act like a wronged heroine in a slock comedy? re-incarnate Helen Wheels? that particular personality rebirth here is starting to remind me of some of the old Marvel cartoon characters coming and going over the last forty years.
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Bravo!
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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.....I found 32 uses of the word ......
I don't know why this has to be a sparring match. Swallowing a little pride isn't butt smooching. We don't need to pick apart every sentence like a surgeon, or a sturgeon for that matter.
But then again I'm just a dumb carpenter.
And tho this is addressed to you-since we have no "ALL" feature here unless we open a new thread, I will take this opportunity now to say this goes out to everyone reading and posting here.
Off to dinner with my mother in law. Now there's a happy thought.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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I'm sure your MIL will be very happy to have you for dinner, seasoned or not.
As for the other, that is why I am taking anything that even MIGHT be taken as negative criticism off in private. Got tired of the pollution and no intention to let that happen here too, from my hand.
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.
Excellence is its own reward!
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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Piffin I gotta ask......cause well, I don't see Splinty doing much of anything that warrants all this....personally I wouldn't mess over in the Tavern cause it is theirs, but it seems to me everybody is sorta picking on Splinty......
especially the Dino character.....
Man I believe those buttheads at Taunton really did you guys dirty. Am I the only one? If so I will shut my pie hole and go about my business....cause
I get a distinct feeling everybodies kinda hoping Taunton will reopen the play ground.......if only you guys are good little boys.......
I wouldn't bet on it . . and even if they do they gonna make it so damn sterile it won't be any fun anyhow.
Since I was invited here I thought I'd give my two cents worth concerning Taunton. I did that and It's/I'm getting a bit redundant......so
How are you planning on surviving the social/economic meltdown when you live on an island?
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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I also think it stinks, but I don't see what anybody can do about it except to vote with their feet.
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Likewise, i'll make this a general reply.
I also don't know why the sparring match needs to be, but the mention of 32 cases of shit was to inject some perspective based on fact. More facts:
Dino chose to address me as he did; i did not solicit his input. (#10550) I explained my reference and said, "Peace, dammit." He then escalated his attack.
My first post to Eric was to thank him for ending his feud with Andy (#10419). His response was to jump on me (#10422) and continue until i simply ignored him, giving him his precious "last word".
Luka's tried to bait me. (#10649) I ignored him, too.
It's not a matter of pride that i don't kiss butt; it's a matter of getting damned sick and tired of having my braids pulled by these bozos, let alone listening to someone else defend them, then blame it on my having braids. Frankly, people need a new hobby besides dissecting what makes Splintergroupie tick.
I've created limericks, traded poetry, offered free stuff, reconnected with Newf, resurrected John Galt, and sent a donation - all about trying to be a good citizen here and injecting some enthusiasm. I'm as content to leave this place as moribund as i found it if that's not good enough. I'm tired of pushing rope.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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The easiest thing is to just not respond. They will eventually go away.
I'm becoming more convinced every day that out differences are not philosophic, but genetic.
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I'll be happy to converse with you offline, if you wish. I can't tell if the Helen Wheels reference is metaphorical, but she was not my character, much as i wish i could lay claim to 'her' inspired presence. I'd like to be able to write half as well as Fred.
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
The easiest thing is to just not respond. They will eventually go away.
I'm becoming more convinced every day that out differences are not philosophic, but genetic.
It's striking to me how similar this entry here is to my entry to BT in 2000. I got lots of advice about how to behave and express myself then, too. Geez, i thought they knew me by now.
I'm not sure i know what you mean by "genetic". XX and XY come to mind, but then i'm predisposed to think along those lines. Did you mean something else?
PS: I've been turning the word 'delph' over in my mind all day, from that poem you posted. <G>
Edited by splintergroupie (Thu Nov 13 2008 10:46 PM)
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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I was talkin' about a war that seems to have been goin' on since the beginnin' of time.
Maybe with the new genetic mapping we'll finally find some indicators.
'Til then
I'm a rambler, I'm a gambler
I'm a long way from home
And them that don't like me can leave me alone.
And here's another word that comes to mind:
deal 2
Noun
1. a plank of softwood timber
2. the sawn wood of various coniferous trees [Middle Low German dele plank]
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Splinty,
I don't mean this as a personal attack or a pile on. I have a (very) faint feeling that if we met in person, we MIGHT get along.
That said, you are a real peice of work. An exceptional person. But, (you tend to) come on like a bull in a china shop to be perfectly frank with you.
"Frankly, people need a new hobby besides dissecting what makes Splintergroupie tick."
Look at that statement for a couple of minutes, and then turn it around.
I see Splinty's hobby as dissecting what makes us all tick. That's what attracts you to this place. (BT)
Again, not meant as a personal attack, just an objective observation. Kick it down a couple of notches.
Think scalpel, not axe!
Eric
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Hey Colleen...I didn't jump on Dino cause to me all he's doin' is suckin' ass with Taunton and you know how I feel about that! Ain't worth a response and he doesn't bother me nor do the people that ratted me and others out as per their lil' game plan which back fired on a lot of em'. Some of the bans may have been warranted but quite frankly...most weren't in my opinion. Taunton just doesn't know how to run a forum anymore....pretty much like the magazine is headed... They've neutered themselves from any form of life and soul and Dino and Eric and all the other assh-s can have a field day over there b/c it's all theirs now to do what they want with.
You actually miss that place...as it is??? Not me!! It's a major bore fest! The only soul left over there picks my gum up off their floors.
It was a nice decade we had but read my lips "IT'S OVER", FINI', DONE, HASTA LA VISTA BABY!
New day dawnin' and here's the song I'm dedicating to it all. TURN UP THE VOLUME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E372fuerleM
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited by ANDYBUILDZ (Thu Nov 13 2008 11:09 PM)
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Bwwaaa haaa- haaa...might get along..yeah, right. LOL.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Stick around here, Andy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv5BYEOQYLo
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Brother man, we need to kick this place up !!!!!!
I heard a funny on Maher last week, ain't it ironic we freed the slaves, and then elected a black man to sweep up the mess?
That would get me bammed at BT, I'd bet.
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
what in the world are you trying to do gurl?! See how much you can get away with? Act like a wronged heroine in a slock comedy? re-incarnate Helen Wheels? that particular personality rebirth here is starting to remind me of some of the old Marvel cartoon characters coming and going over the last forty years.
Maybe I misunderstood when you then said:
Quote:
As for the other, that is why I am taking anything that even MIGHT be taken as negative criticism off in private. Got tired of the pollution and no intention to let that happen here too, from my hand.
"As for the other..."-- were you referring to something else?
Or is it that your first comment couldn't possibly be taken as negative?
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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I was watching a program on PBS about evolution featuring lots of kinds of monkeys. The thesis was that the closer genetically they were to H. sapiens, the more violent they were with each other (males not just bluffing, but inflicting serious damage), the more the males herded the females, the more strife from unattached males, the more meat they ate, etc.
I feel like a bonobo in the land of baboons!
I think you and i have the same record collection, though. I first heard those lyrics from Gordon Bok. Do you know him? From Maine? His gift to a woman friend with cabin fever:
When the deer have bedded down and the bear has gone to ground
And the northern geese have wandered off to warmer bay and sound
It's so easy in the cold to feel the darkness of the year
But you know they're only waiting for the morning.
Oh, my Joanie, don't you know that the stars are swinging slow
And the seas are rolling easy as they did so long ago?
If i had a thing to give you, i would tell you one more time
That the world is always turning toward the morning.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Went out last night with 6 of my best friends from grde / high school.
Drinkin' jokin'.
All of 'em tellin' layoffs and hard times, unempolyment, etc.
Had to remind them - I aint had a job since I was 17.
Been unemployed for 25 years.
All a matter of perspective I guess.
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Fug them and everyone that looks like em'! I dont wanna hear no stinkin' explanations...yada yada yada...Kiss my HinJew ass. I'm sick of all the talk about that dump. It's dead to me. It might be OK for some building info but thats it...the soul has been sucked dry from that grave yard. Why anyone would have the need to walk on top of rotting corpses is beyond me. We did our two minutes of mourning...I sat shiva for about a day. I'll send em' dead roses in the morning.
Hey...Mitch Mitchell just died...now that death is really worth mourning. that dude had soul!
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Alright, here's another general reply............to all.
And since it still might be construed to you, I'll go find another victim to address it to.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Yeah, I read that this AM..Him and Jimmy and Joel all back getting Experienced again..s'ok.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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When I lived in WVA I became convinced that the locals had had the creative gene bred out of them.
White house, black shutters, black shingles. Very rarely someone would make an attempt at some color and the results were always hideous. - or, maybe they were all just color blind.
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Who would have imaged that "contractor sorts" would get bent out of shape when someone actually speaks her/his mind.
Splintie and I only get along sometimes - but IMO the people who complain about her "persona" tend to be the very same ones who over-indulge in the very "personality quirks" they complain of.
Human nature, I guess.
(AKA "projection" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Andy, this is a post to all so you don't mistake it.
Might be kosher or not.
I'm gonna analogize.
You go into a bar. You see people you like. You see people you don't.
Where do you sit? For that matter, what route do you take to get to the table with your buddies?
A hard ass (whoops) walks right by the ones he dislikes, probably gives em a look or a little elbow. Provocative, no?
Me, I take a bit different route, not wanting to antagonize anybody. I'm still walking in there, but I'm not making it a point to start anything.
Why do things seem to be life and death to some? And I mean pointless meaningless things.
Why?
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
I'm gonna analogize.
You go into a bar....
Years ago a bar waitress taught me a great tip for manuvering through crowds - lightly touch someone on the shoulder and they'll move out of the way without even being aware they've moved - try it - it's like parting the red sea and yo just glide through.
Push 'em, though, and they'll just push back.
Wish I could apply that tip in other contexts <G>
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Bob,
That's so funny uou bring that up because I was thinking the exact same thing. Only 180 deg turned around.
So, we're at a crossroads.
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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My da introduced me to the records of Tommy Makem and the Clancy Brothers. No better place to start for classic Irish traditional music.
I'm runnin' out of battery now, havre to pop back home and re-charge.
> Courtin' In The Kitchen
Traditional
Come single belle and beau, unto me pay attention
Don't ever fall in love, for it's the devil's own invention
For once I fell in love with a maiden so bewitching
Miss Henrietta Bell out in Captain Kelly's kitchen
With me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
And me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
At the age of seventeen I was 'prenticed to a grocer
Not far from Stephen's Green where Miss Henri' used to go sir
Her manners were sublime and she set me heart a-twitchin'
When she invited me to a hooley in the kitchen
With me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
And me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
Oh, next Sunday bein' the day that we were to have the flare-up
I dressed meself quite gay and I frizzed and oiled me hair up
The Captain had no wife and he had gone a-fishin'
And we kicked up high life down below stairs in the kitchen
With me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
And me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
With her arm around me waist, she slyly hinted marriage
To the door in dreadful haste came Captain Kelly's carriage
Her eyes were full of hate and poison she was spittin'
When the Captain at the door, walked right into the kitchen
With me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
And me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
When the Captain came downstairs, though he saw me situation
In despite of all me prayers I was marched off to the station
For me they'd take no bail, but to get home I was itchin'
And I had to tell the tale, how I came into the kitchen
With me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
And me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
Now, I said she did invite me, but she gave a flat denial
For assault she did indict me, and I was sent for trial
She swore I robbed the house and in spite of all her schreechin'
And I got six months hard for me courtin' in the kitchen
With me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
And me toora loora la and me toora loora laddie
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Yeah, if I was good looking and had nice ones I bet I'd have no problem traversing a crowded bar.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I think you're doin' fine.
Sometimes a little edgy, but we all get in a mood, as long as the edge don't become our persona. When we embrace the edge it all goes to hell.
I'm a prince - she said so.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Not a bad analogy for a dumb carpenter.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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I may be a dumb carpenter, but being around 59 yrs and learning something does give me a bit of an education. I wouldn't expect this from myself at age..........say 58.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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This is NOT addressed to all...
You come in here shouting, (The name of the folder was not intended to be a directive for your every post...)
Banging on pots and pans. Swinging a big stick around. And generally making a stink.
You insult, and continue to do so, anyone that doesn't agree with you, or doesn't have a beef with Taunton. Calling us ass-kissers and other things.
Every time something more is said, you run to the ramparts again, get more personal with your insults, and in general find new ways to spread shit around.
A few people try to tell you to tone it down, or just plain disagree with you... and we are "baiting you", or otherwise being meanies.
You may have a genetic need to spread shit all over, wherever you go, but I assure you, no one else has a matching need to accept that.
And when we don't accept that... When we don't pretty much kiss YOUR ass... Then WE are the problem.
Uh... yeah.
I am going to tell you once. Plain and simple. Tone it down, and especially cut out the personal insults, or I am going to ban you.
You owe Dino an apology. I don't care what your reasons or explanations are. That post was WAY over the line.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Same thing goes for you, Andy.
If I see any more comments like this one... I will ban you.
Quote:
I didn't jump on Dino cause to me all he's doin' is suckin' ass with Taunton
That is way over the line.
You also owe him an aoplogy.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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You're getting better at it.
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Yeah, if I was good looking and had nice ones I bet I'd have no problem traversing a crowded bar.
Ahhh ...... neber mine
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Sidebar;
Did you get the message that I sent to you through BT Email?
I sent you a message, probably around Nov. 1st give or take a few days.
Wondered if you recieved it.
--------------------
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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This is getting outta hand. I've made the mistake of trying to step in between a couple ready to go at in a real bar. I'll make the mistake again.
Settle down.
And this of course is directed to ALL.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Old dog, new tricks?
Or just early dementia?
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Well, not really directed to all.
But what I'm reading is an example why this world is so #%!&*^$ up.
People don't know when to shut up. Gotta keep at it, gotta win.
Bullshit.
Act like human beings with some feelings, for christ sake.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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And how bout this.
Grow up and learn to spell.
so the word checker can edit out your language.
You aren't Lenny Bruce.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Bravo! Bravo!
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Bravo!!
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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I've about had it.
The same crap that folded the Tavern is starting right back up here.
Community?
Yeah right.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Cal,
I'll make a donation tomorrow.
Well worth the entertainment value.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Thanks, but you might want to think this over.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Ummmm,
I really meant it.
Bob used to really piss me off.
Not so much anymore.
In fact before the poo hit the fan over in the Tav, we were having a very good discussion, as far as I was concerned.
I meant that post as a compliment.
I really do think that he is better at something that he stated that he wished to be better at.
I also agree with his statement. More bees with honey....
Too much edge and angst is the lesson I learned from Taunton.
After all these years I finally learned something from Taunton.
You should change your perception of my posts. ( meant to all)
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Hey, I'M BEHAVING don't that count for something?
Love ya Cal, hang in there.
Squeeze the DW for me OK?
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Darnit Jeff-I'm serious-TO ALL, yours was just a convenient button.
You should take a drive and meet up with Bob for a breakfast-say the star. Honest to goodness.
Me and woodard would of course attend.
Got it?
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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You're doing ok. But any squeezing I do will not be for you.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Mike, i think if we sit back here in the snug we can see the fight without spilling our Black and Tans. ;^)
I was a booking agent for Robbie OConnell for a year or so in the late 80s, out West only; another gal booked his East coast stuff. He was the nephew who began playing with the Clancy Bros after Tommy died. He and his wife contracted to have me make a huge trestle table for their large brood and a couple Arts & Crafts style couches that i drove back to their place in MA. I got to hang with Tony Cuffe (Ossian), Mick Moloney (Green Fields of America, Cherish the Ladies mentor)...what halcyon days those were. Mick is from Limerick, so i've always...very fondly...thought of him as...
THE LIMERICK RAKE
I am a young fellow that's easy and bold,
In Castletown Conners I'm very well known;
In Newcastle West I spent many a note
With Kitty and Molly and Mary.
My parents rebuked me for being such a rake
And spending my time in such frolicsome ways,
But I ne've could forget the good nature of Jane,
Agus fagaimid siud mar ata se.
My parents, they reared me to shake and to sow,
To plough and to harrow, to reap and to mow;
But my heart was too airy to drop it so low,
I set out on a high speculation.
On paper and parchment they taught me to write
And in Euclid and grammar they opened my eyes,
But in multiplication, in truth, I was bright,
Agus fagaimid siud mar ata se.
To quarrel for riches I ne'er was inclined,
For the greatest of misers must leave them behind;
I'll purchase a cow that will never run dry
And I'll milk her by twisting her horn.
John Damer of Shronel had plenty of gold
And Devonshire's treasure was twenty times more,
But he's laid on his back among nettles and stones,
Agus fagaimid siud mar ata se.
If I chance for to go to the market at Croom,
With a cock in my hat and my pipes in full tune,
I am welcome at once and brought up to a room
Where Bacchus is sporting with Venus.
There's Peggy and Jane from the town of Bruree,
And Biddy from Bruff and we all on the spree,
Such a combing of locks as there was about me,
Agus fagaimid siud mar ata se.
There's some say I'm foolish, there's more say I'm wise,
For love of the women I'm sure 'tis no crime;
For the son of King David had ten hundred wives
And his wisdom is highly recorded.
I'll till a good garden and live at my ease
And the women and children can partake of the same,
If there's war in the cabin, themselves are to blame,
Agus fagaimid siud mar ata se.
And now for the future I mean to be wise,
And I'll send for the women that treated me kind;
And I'll marry them all on the morrow, by and by
If the clergy agree to the bargain.
And when I'm on my back and my soul is at peace
The women will crowd for to cry at my wake,
And their sons and their daughters will utter their prayers
To the Lord for the sake of their father.
That boy could play hell out of a mandolin.... *sigh*
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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I knew you were selfish. LOL
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Yep, loud and clear.If I had your clout here, I would have said it first.
I could not possibly agree more.
And I whole heartedly agree with your message to all.(me)
Can't and aint personally gonna deal with the same old devisive crap. If it happens here too, I got your number, other than that, I'm gone. Everyone has a last chance here, to show what they are. Givin' it my best. I got better stuff to do than argue on the internet. Left my arguein' in the Tav.
PS.Actually tried to call him (RJ) yesterday.
Woodard? Any relation to Woody from Gladieux?
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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When you get back, check on Mike and me over in the corner with our pennywhistles. I'll buy you a warm whisky, put you right to sleep. We'll sweep up this glass in the morning.
Lordy, i'm going to think twice about it next time i have an urge to get up on the bar and sing "I Want To Be Seduced" right after rugby practice is over...
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jarhead2
Reged: Mar 18 2008
Posts: 1
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Quote:
I've about had it.
The same crap that folded the Tavern is starting right back up here.
Community?
Yeah right.
20+ pages and this was my exact interpretation......LOL
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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todd woodard-from sylvania-remodeler-never can remember his BT name. Good guy.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Two devious minds run in the same ditch.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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dovetail
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 9
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Ironic ain't it.
http://www.taunton.com/thetauntonpress/forums_hr.asp
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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I think some famous writer wrote something about irony.
that in itself is pretty darn ironic.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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"Man I believe those buttheads at Taunton really did you guys dirty. Am I the only one?"
nah - taunton did (some of) them wrong -
Peter: "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?
J: "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times"
Look, everyone posting here loves Breaktime - if they didn't, they wouldn't wasting energy/time posting about how little it means to them -
But - nobody at Taunton loves breaktime - they don't have the time or inclination to hang out, read all the threads, make nice, and gently/deftly guide the behaviour while making/keeping detailed lists of contributions/offenses so as to meet out milkbones/punishments to fit the person -
They'd love to make $ off of Breaktime, but haven't figured out how - I'm thinking that is J-P's job - he's got bosses to answer to - the ugliness that has characterized the tavern the last 4+ months is not helping anything -
I dare say he got an ultimatum to get control -
and he has -
he did warn (which is not quite the same as asking politely), and we ignored the warning -
that the roguing was indiscriminate is a product of taunton not loving breaktime -
so -
"Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice."
(individually) let it go - repent - humbly (if you can fake sincerity, ya got it made) beg forgiveness - ask for probation -
might work - doesn't cost anything but pride, of which there is a surfeit anyway -
remember - I love you all - even the ones I can't stand....
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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well put, but "J" informed me it's "Mete" not "meet"
he's one heck of a spell checker I tell ya.
Ah, I think that many of the worldly incarnations are feeling a pressure that is both unknowable, and unkind to their preconceived way of being. This and that energy has to be absorbed or dissimulated over a vast array of scenes. Too much here, too much there is like slinging grease that was supposed to be in the joints.
We had a chance to be contrite, we had a chance to be open and sharing, some took it too far, possibly unbeknown st to them.
There was a time, when the willingness to be polite, was honored, where and when that disappeared, went right by me.
What has ensued is similar to rebellion and revolt, of which I am a staunch supporter of, as long as it don't cause blood on my lawn ( again).
We ( WE) have a duty to Marshall ourselves into a collective to address the forth coming and currently important issues of our crisis's that will adversely affect our offspring and our selves in our so called "Golden years".
Web forums are a double edged sword, we have fake blogs, and dis-information, we have out right lies, we have bias, and truth intertwined with pearls of wisdom. We also have free minds, those that are full of curiosity and wonder, creativity, and experience in a way that is innate, a well being. Trust that, question that that makes you uneasy, but go with power of grace and openness.
We all could use lesson in civility as applied to disobedience , my dogs know not to piss in the food bowl, but still jump and hurt me with joy to see me, and how can I knee them when they are just showing love and excitement?
salute..I'll see ya
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Pierre1
Reged: Apr 22 2005
Posts: 13
Loc: British Columbia (Rocky Mounta...
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Calvin if I may quote from my first and only post on this thread (speaking of the Tavern):
"The last 6 months or so I've only occasionally piped up as I was tired of the relentless "did so - did not" that US election 'discussions' degenerated into."
The bickering has simply migrated here. Twenty pages' worth! Hard to believe that many of us graduated high school decades ago. Sadly, the BT mods and their stooges must now feel justified.
Calvin, thanks for stepping in.
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TimMooney
Reged: Jul 14 2002
Posts: 6
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How are U
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TimMooney
Reged: Jul 14 2002
Posts: 6
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I couldnt get through all this .
But I wanted to ask you .
How many are gone ? Is there a list ?
Tim
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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meet/mete -
ya - I was kinda proud of slipping 'behaviour' in there, even tho my built in speel checker doesn't like it -
dunno -
all things change - breaktime isn't what it used to be and never will be again - but is still a place where good people meet/mete/meat - -
if it was making money, they would take care of it -
how would you use that asset (breaktime) to make money?
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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Yeah, I know........I grew up rough and tumble and (Calvin to answer your question as to why all the angst?)
Pride is a HUGE factor to people who have little else with which to retaliate with....and I must admit to being someone who has attacked first and longest in my youth,
but I am a gentle old man. :-) in exile.
In order to answer your question you must first understand why the blacks are so upset when they think they are being dissed.
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
In order to answer your question you must first understand why the blacks are so upset when they think they are being dissed.
Amen brotha...couldn't have said it better myself.
and to Pierre...who cares if the mods at BT now feel justified.
We came over here a bit angry with good reason. No reflection on Calvin...thats for sure. He at least allowed us to explain and vent for a bit...
I have no reason to appologize to anyone...especially the mods at BT. They have their little world back again along with the folks that need their sterile little enviorement.
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Darn, how did you fit so many questions into one single post?
I am TRYING to avoid stirring the pot and sh!tting in this playground. splintie seems to be enjoying trying to do just that.
survive? Dunno, always have, probably will.
Appreciate you and smooth attitude and perspective. Hope I don't have to get one foot in the grave to learn the same...tryin...
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Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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My apologies then for the Helen Wheels ref. I missed most of the blowup about that time, but somehow had been given to think that she was you
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Excellence is its own reward!
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Hijack - cause I can't post "to" over here.
I have a wood burning venting question.
Will you answer?
Where should I put it? BT, Here(construction)
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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Amen brotha...couldn't have said it better myself.
Me neither......no apologies.....no regrets......no like those dudes........they no care.........
Ha!............life is good....no?
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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looking for a fight are ya?
Keep looking
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Excellence is its own reward!
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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Hope I don't have to get one foot in the grave to learn the same...tryin... (quote)
Don't try too hard, man I was ready to bail out of this place till you showed up..............
Went to the VA the other day......doc says he thinks (because of my sleep problem and other things) I have PTSD.
See what all this does to a person?
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"Fug them and everyone that looks like em'! I dont wanna hear no stinkin' explanations...yada yada yada...Kiss my HinJew ass. I'm sick of all the talk about that dump. It's dead to me. "
I think anger is only one of the middle phases of mourning.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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This ain't entertainment.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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Eitherwhere.
Link me to it. I'll probably see it at BT. Still getting the hang of navigating this site.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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LOL
I had some weird and bad dreams last night and woke up feeling like something wrong and unsettled...stomach upset...
Maybe it was all this junk, maybe something else.
Wife just showed me some pumpkin bread she was throwing out cause mold growing on top.
I had four slices last night for desert.
Ya think..??
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Excellence is its own reward!
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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man you be mouldy enough without eating the stuff........
psssst....it no good for you even if it does make good penicilin.
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Same here.
Only my dreams were ok, and I don't have moldy bread to blame for it all.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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the stuff tasted great - was only two days old.
But the spores must have been well on the way to blooming and grew well right after I ate it last night. Still feeling 'bubbly' inside.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
for a breakfast-say the star. Honest to goodness.
As long as it's the Dussell Drive one - the view, er, food,er, eye candy isn't nearly so good up on alexis
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
looking for a fight are ya?
No, I wasn't - that's why I asked a question, and twice emphasized that I realized maybe I wasn't reading your messages accurately.
I don't suppose you'd care to answer the question?
Edited by rjw (Fri Nov 14 2008 01:19 PM)
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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No - I have no desire to discuss with you your interpretation of what I said.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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Sorry I had to bail on you last night. Been fightin' a nasty cold this last week. I used to take my Guinness' with a wedge of lime.
Here's one for the forum.
Smoke Shovelling Song
by Robin Williamson
Last winter blew so cold no lies,
And my fire smoke would not rise;
Soon as the smoke tried to depart,
It'd be froze up harder than a landlord's heart.
I called up the police and they came around
Three days later and very brought down.
The sergeant he gave me this hysterical croak.
Says, "What do you think you have going here, some kind of joke?"
(of course I wasn't laughing)
He says, "You're causing us officers so much grief,
Why don't you give us some relief?
Why don't you call the fire brigade?
Or maybe why don't you try shovelling the smoke up the chimney with a spade."
I borrowed a spade from the woman next door,
And I broke up the smoke that remained on the floor,
I was shovelling away, 'till the closing day singing a smoke-shovelling song.
After working so hard I went out to my yard,
And I looked up to my chimney so long, (there was nothing to see there)
Just a thousand foot high, way into the sky,
Was a pillar of smoke full of song.
There was an airplane stuck in it,
but I didn't notice at first it was so cunningly disguised as a dragon.
Came the summer at last, though it was rainy and fast,
The pillar it melted away,
The airplane fell with a big smoky smell,
And echoing around all over the town,
Was the words of the smoke shovelling song.
Any anyone telling a bigger story would have to be telling a lie,
And anyone think a bigger one up,
Have to be very high.
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- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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I'm right behind you. ]Said to Colleen as she leaves] [ one comment Paul and i will be down in Maine before you can say below prime loan]
QT'ers...it's been, as they say...a slice...but I no more want to read what I read in this thread as I want to poke very hot things under my fingernails....
I emailed one moderator...that's all I can do. Seems the knives are out for certain people. There is a very large group , not posting, just watching...to see what happens. I can tell you...a bunch of use are saying good bye...I mean when the so called sysop threatens 2 of my best friends from BT here with banishment...well...screw this forum.
Go back to the start of this thread...see who did who... and look at the ones that posted once or twice...then sat back and wondered why the hell they came over here if the same BS is going on, with the same kind of very very un equal punishment from the mods are here.
To those that want things spelt out...I am talking about the treatment of Colleen and Andy. And when Bob W. came over...well don't ya know...it starts on him.
So why the big hammer falls on Colleen at al...well I see it as very unfounded.
So..let's see...2 cents + 2 cents + 2 cents...ah well screw it...it's only Canadian money
...just saying....
Newf
Frankly scarlips, I could give a damn...
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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Post to ALL
Here's my take, do with it what you will.
Luka blew up, got pretty specific.
I blew up and tried to be pretty general, I meant it to all that were reading.
A little rehash. Personal insults are discouraged. You want to argue and interject personal jabs, step outside. That's both sides now, not just one side v. the other poor hapless s.o.b. All they do is turn into a bunch of retaliations. You want to discuss politics, no problem but please use your head.
Foul language. I curl my own hair when in the right company. But here it is potentially harmful to, say andyfew for instance-or his father should he check up on what's so interesting. And since most of you can spell, don't try to bypass the word check using punctuation marks and such. The same impact can certainly be reached using #%!&*^$.
Since '02 maybe, this forum has been here as an outlet, a place to go for infomation when BT went down and a collection site when a brother or sister got in a jam. QT is not trying to be something its not. This is what you get. You make of it what you put into it.
I won't speak for Luka, but if I offended you, I'm sorry. Not sorry for trying to get some decorum in here, but sorry for picking on you (or so you might think).
Is this like the massacre (and noone's been axed that I know of) at Breaktime. Well I don't think so because you all are seeing the whole sordid episode right here for your viewing displeasure.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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" one comment Paul and i will be down in Maine before you can say below prime loan] "
Glad to have you. We'll put on a pot of beans and open a brew.
But you adressed the post to splintie, then talked randomly and generally to everyone else in the thread, so if there was some specific reason why you chose to adress a line to me, I missed it. If it was important, maybe you could make it clear so I understand.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
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Quote:
They'd love to make $ off of Breaktime, but haven't figured out how - I'm thinking that is J-P's job - he's got bosses to answer to - the ugliness that has characterized the tavern the last 4+ months is not helping anything
Taunton isn't making any money off BT bec they've only approached it as sellers, not as users.
Their software automatically hampers at least 15% of non-IE users, the search is nearly unusable, and the folders on forum suggestions and similar are essentially ignored. We've grown accustomed to hearing "We can't do that" when we suggest beneficial changes to the format.
They add a layer of hassle by requiring registration to even READ the forums, thereby eliminating another potential group of customers who aren't willing to buy a pig in a poke. How many customers are willing to be frisked to enter a store?
The forums aren't searchable by Google, which would bring people to Taunton, get 'em helped and make them feel grateful enough to buy a book or video, in contrast to a place like Garden Web for instance. It's no wonder BT has become an insular clubhouse, but i don't buy that the Tavern is responsible for that.
Taunton could get a great deal of content for free if they encouraged net publishing by their forum members. Ian and i worked pretty hard on that floor-sanding tutorial, which Taunton has deleted. Basswood or DougU put up a video on coping with a small grinder. (Thanks, boys!) This sort of on-the-fly mini-tutorial should be encouraged like mad to bring customers coming back for more while costing Taunton NOTHING, yet Taunton has instead become famous for re-working previously published material like some cover band from the 80s.
So that's the carrot end of things. Now the stick...
There is no moderation to keep serious threads from becoming joke threads for the regulars, let alone to keep the Tavern civil. My recent thread on the electronics for a feral cat trap immediately became a litter box of jokes about feral dogs, etc. I had to use a scooper to pull out relevant info that got buried. Lots of newbies aren't going to bother.
Add to that a Tavern that looks like the Wild West and contains the personal blog of a bitter divorcé, and that it's a mystery who's even in charge. Is it Robyn? Justin? J-P? Some black-hatted boogie-man? The Collective? Luka?!?
The only consistent moderation has been to add to the list of dirty words like "gay". Do you recall when we weren't allowed to say "screw" either? You can't talk about a Washita stone without 'cheating'. Taunton's emphasis on wielding clumsy moral authority while the nuts and bolts are ignored builds disdain for the administrators a little at a time.
The forums have been like this for years. If the objective is to make money and isn't being met, as a business person i would either figure out how to MAKE it happen or drop them altogether. I certainly wouldn't blame the willing participants for my lack of leadership and inattention to their suggestions for improvement. I wouldn't throw crockery every few months as a morale-building technique before trying better software and consistent moderation.
I will add that the problems of the forums don't occur in a vacuum. I've elsewhere related my story of having four editors over two years mangle and lose my original pics for an article i submitted. At one point i offered to mutually withdraw from the contract so i could sell it elsewhere, but they refused.
FWW is trotting out a book of 102 pieces of furniture reruns. Taunton used to put out Biennial Design Books of hundreds of pieces of glorious furniture, all layperson-submitted material, that were the height of woodworker porn and still some of my most prized resources.
Then there is Quality Control. Here's a bit of an email i received recently from a woodworking friend and a former publisher in his own right who used Taunton plans to build a bench:
I sent in a fairly detailed critique of the plans for the bench along with the following photo which is almost the same view as the cover photo, but no response to my email even though I had told the editor to expect it. There were some errors in the plans I bought from them as well as some suggestions for improving the project plans. Later I found out from the designer (Russ Jensen) that he had not even seen the plans, only the printed article which also had a couple of errors. Makes me wonder about that outfit.
Here are two reviews on Toolmonger.com of their Index CD for FWW that show how they are alienating customers continually:
1. Mike D Says:
September 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Maybe it’s me, but charging $20 for a simple index, not actual articles, seems like a slap in the face to people who have been buying the magazine over the years. Most of the magazines I subscribe to that have archival quality, have a website with a free index either online or downloadable as a pdf.
And considering the index is out of date as soon as the next issue comes out makes the $20 cost even more outlandish.
2. Jerad Says:
September 17th, 2008 at 5:42 am
I agree with Mike. Not to sound too snarky, but wouldn’t a simple search feature on their website be a much more reasonable solution? If they do want to sell discs, they should look at examples like Rolling Stone for comparison. I can go to Amazon now and buy 4 DVDs with full page-by-page archives of every one of their issues from 1967 to 2007 for $32. That’s a better deal.
We all know that dissatisfied customers will spread your name even faster that satisfied ones. I came to Taunton an ardent devotee of the publications and leave disenchanted in all respects.
Taunton is dealing with symptoms instead of engaging in basic hygiene, and the problem is merely most obvious in the forums. If you grew your orchard like they've grown their forums, you'd have small, wormy fruit and a corresponding bottom line. Would you go cut down a few trees as examples to the others to shape up or would you put the resources into making it profitable? If i were as tone-deaf to my customers as Taunton has been, i would still be working for my daily bread as someone else's employee.
This is actually a parting giveaway to show that i'm not oblivious to Taunton's business concerns while i'm also illustrating that Taunton's problems with personnel and with making money with the forums and in general are within Taunton's power to fix. Some two-bit posters in a hidden folder have been booted in an act of frustration that will serve no beneficial purpose to their bottom line.
Likewise, this forum has languished for years, maintained as Luka's playpen out of the kindness of his friends. Luka and i have history so i expected such an outburst from him eventually, though even i'm surprised how little impulse management he has shown. I've no interest in feigning sincerity to get back to BT nor in exchanging moderators who go crazy with the change of seasons for one for whom that state is his natural condition. Dust thou art... <cue Eric shouting "Bravo!">
If anyone wants to be in touch, drop a line at cmilleratcybernet1dotcom. Mike, i especially loved swapping songs; i've sung more in the last few days than in ages.
Oh of all the money that e'er i had
I spent it in good company
And of all the harm that i ever did
Alas, it was to none but me
For all i've done
For want of wit
To memory now i can't recall
So fill to me the parting glass
Good-night and joy be with you all.
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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That's one way to Cat-egorize things lately
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Excellence is its own reward!
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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Thanks Splinty,
I got a good belly laugh at the end of your essay.
Bravo!!
I have throughout my life time had many people suggest to me that I am a "bit" too serious in general. I understand where they are coming from most certainly.
I'm curious, have you had similiar experience?
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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So Eric -
Were you born a dickhead or is this a trait you've consciously grown and developed?
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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I'm glad you asked that, I was wondering the same thing.
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Eric_Paulson
Reged: Feb 12 2007
Posts: 32
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I have no desire to discuss with you your interpretation of what I said.
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
Thanks Splinty,
I got a good belly laugh at the end of your essay.
Bravo!!
I have throughout my life time had many people suggest to me that I am a "bit" too serious in general. I understand where they are coming from most certainly.
I'm curious, have you had similiar experience?
Yer a troll eric..plain and simple!
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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CU2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 121
Loc: The burning tundra
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I have no desire to discuss with you your interpretation of what I said.
I wasn't interpreting anything. Just reading aloud. It was a multiple choice question, not an essay question.
Edited by CU2 (Fri Nov 14 2008 09:58 PM)
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Newf...what can I say? To me this particular thread is all about venting which I'd say is understandable being a lot of us had a good deal of time invested in BT only to be tossed like trash....
Carps/craftspeople/artisians are a passionate group not robots. The months of the presidential campaign was the most intense in history. What did anyone expect would happen in a Tavern? Would it have calmed down? I'm pretty certain it would have. It amazes me that Cooks Talk doesn't have the same issues. They were/are as rowdy as we were yet they still post with little sign of banishment. Something to be said for woman and heated discussions.
I don't need to be put into my place by anyone. I'm fifty freaking seven years old for god sakes. I can take heated discussions. I can scroll past posts I consider idiotic or stop and let the person know how I feel.
Would I do that to the same degree in a building thread? Not nearly the same way I wouldn't. I do have a certain amt of common sense in spite of how stupid I may look.
Do I look to lure people in like a troll like I see a select group do? I have no need to b/c I tell them exactly how I feel....to their faces..given the opportunity and folks deserve the right to have a place to do that within a community. If it is in fact a Tavern then the propriators have the right to keep the youngin's out if necessary and if there are any elders that are in the minority and find that Tavern offensive then find a new one...ya know..turn the channel.
Luka said he would ban me...knock yer self out. It's not like I have anything much invested here and even if I did... I do however appreciate the fact that Cal has given people the opportunity to vent pretty freely so far. Little things don't go unnoticed by me or a lot of other people I don't think.
I never did get how people don't have the sense to turn the channel or scroll past a post if they feel offended, rather then trying to change the entire dynamics of the atmosphere.
There's a lot to be said about passion which is one reason I have no desire to ever go back to that swamp known as Taunton's Breaktime graveyard...not the way it is now anyway....and I doub't it will ever change. Ya can never go home...ya know? Where I hang my hat today is my home as long as I feel welcomed in.
Namaste'
andy
Ps...so there is or isn't a spell check here
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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One thing I always loved about you Splinty..........you sure are good with words............
Good luck........
You know this is all really fing weird.
But I love your mind.
So to your mind I say.......tôi yêu ban thoi gian dài :-)
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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Hi Paul:
I addressed my comments to Colleen because, as you know, there is no "ALL" button
I would love to break bread with you and Carole..well you know, as long as you check it out first, LOL. The bread, I mean, LOL
As I enjoyed meeting you both at Mikefest. And right now...I think we all need a fest. Or at least a beer. maybe we could even dig up Matt, Kelly hasn't heard from him since Sept......
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Pierre1
Reged: Apr 22 2005
Posts: 13
Loc: British Columbia (Rocky Mounta...
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Hi Jeff Buck, I see you are there right now.
How is your young son doing...he must be 5 or 6 yo now if memory serves. You guys still put a canoe in the water every now and then? I only canoed once this summer and it was a lovely warm day, with water so clear you could see the trout dart past. Shoulda made the effort to get out more...ground is freezing up now. Later.
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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Yeah...Cal is the best.
Just don't like friends being dissed. And by the activity here to nite...people are wanting a cooling down here....how nuts is this? I hope that's what it takes here...there are great people here..well... on the outside looking in.
I told Cal we might start a new site...called ST...with out the hi...
...I made it up on the run...I was trying for some sense of ...I don't know...friendship... SplinterTime...ST, cause CT,. Cooks Talk was taken...and the "hi" part just...er..slipped out.
Then it dawned on me that I my very well be nuts....
LOL!
Shut up!
Peace
Newf
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Quote:
Then it dawned on me that I my very well be nuts....
Newf
Some of the people I respect the most they called Crazy..
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
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No one writes like you Colleen. You have Theodora beat in spades, NTTIAWWT! {who ever she was.]
And I'm not leaving without a song:
Been trying to find the song, came up with about 234,567,800..
Damn that Google thingie..............
Blue
Blue, songs are like tattoos
You know Ive been to sea before
Crown and anchor me
Or let me sail away
Hey blue, here is a song for you
Ink on a pin
Underneath the skin
An empty space to fill in
Well there're so many sinking now
You've got to keep thinking
You can make it thru these waves
Acid, booze, and ass
Needles, guns, and grass
Lots of laughs, lots of laughs
Everybodys saying that hells the hippest way to go
Well I dont think so
But Im gonna take a look around it though
Blue, I love you
Blue, here is a shell for you
Inside you'll hear a sigh
A foggy lullaby
There is your song from me.
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Jeff_J_Buck
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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The boy will be 7 on the 28th. Has his BDay party tomorrow to avoid the Holiday rush.
Didn't get in a canoe this summer, we bought a cheap kayak at the beginning of the season, kayak'd and camped all summer, then I picked up a nice Old Town kayak "for me" at the end of the season. Didn't have a chance to get it wet. Will probably get both into storage before I get a chance, but we're set for next year.
Also have hopes to buy myself that Old Town Penobscot after XMas, if the work, cash flow and bills all work themself out as hoped. Looking into a small trailer that'll get custom built specifically to haul the camping gear, 2 kayaks and one canoe.
And seeing as how we got the boy into the kayak by himself this year ... if I don't get the deal of the century on "my canoe" ... we'll pick up another kayak that'll be the wife's ...
I got that Old Town Dirigo 140 off a dealer on craigslist for $600. His own personal, untitled kayak ... he'd just moved his shop so it got set 4 times in the last 2 years. Showroom condition ... didn't know the whole story till I met him ... my good deal turned out to be a great deal.
I'm still hoping to fit one "winter camping" trip in with the tent ... then hopefull a cabin rental in Jan or Feb. Might try snow shoeing this year. Saw some cheap to play with ... some cool ones for the kids too.
Jeff
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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on one reading, I find not a single point with which to disagree - -
the erosion of quality at taunton from the early years is a bit like 'boil the frog' scene - go slow enough and nobody notices...
...except those of us inspired by Paul Roman's original portrayals of excellence -
what a sorry vague reflection hides behind the current masthead -
I blame it on money - it's worth noting the first FHB was published in the depth of a real estate recession and for several years was focused on the love of fine shelter and craftsmanship - once the house became an 'investment', the art and eclectic took a back seat to 'fine' vinyl siding -
dunno -
do know how much I have been enriched by my association with breaktime - it saddens me to experience the diaspora - -
dunno -
I do have experience with tragedies - hail and freezes and drought and heat - I endure and maintain what's important - it's not always pretty and it's often dispiriting and at all times humbling - did I mention endure? -
eh - dunno -
I will miss everyone (well most, anyway) - sure is the opposite of fun over at bt right now -
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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here ya go Newf -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bgzgLai28U
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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edit: Lest I screw up again, this is to ALL
I give up.
and to come back after some good music and see that not so much has changed.
ruined the buzz.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
Edited by calvin (Sat Nov 15 2008 01:36 AM)
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David_Doudv2
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 27
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what? you don't like the Ozark Mountain Daredevils?
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maddog3
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 2
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post # 2
still figuring this place out, but after reading this thread I think it is more for the old timers to continue insulting each other than just chewing the fat !
perhaps if I knew some of you better I would be just as mean, who knows ?
the nonstop snarling and abuse is too much, I was tired of it there and seem to have walked right into here, and believe me, my day is hard enough trying not to get maimed or killed at work without coming into a place like this to get stressed because some folks just have to grind their axe 24 hours a day .
I do, however, agree with SGs essay on Tauntons declining quality, and have canceled the cooking, sewing, and gardening subscriptions over the past few years because of it. so it is no great loss on my part to not see the Tavern, I have better things to do and now a bit more time to do them.
so I'll just sit this out and see if I'm wrong
I'm not going to waste my time with Taunton or Mzinga to find out why the person I replied to still has access and I don't
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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Quote:
I'm fifty freaking seven years old for god sakes.
heh heh
Andy said 57.
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TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
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Remember some of the classic Friday night threads, like "anybody into Shamanism". We lost a fun place and now we are reduced to ridiculing each other here, and having ourselves ridiculed over there (shaking my head). Had a lot of fun at a real bar tonite,(some of you joined me there during pub crawl). I feel sorry for all you folks who rely only on a cyber Tavern, Ya'll gotta get out more.
This is the state of the Tavern now, it's real warm and cuddly now that all the polijive is gone.
The Woodshed Tavern
663757 Msgs Post New
Want a warm fuzzy feeling? contains an attachment [57] 12:26am
One of My Favorite Far Side Cartoon 2 contains an attachment [23] 12:21am
Jet - you out there? [18] 12:19am
Sinus Polyps [1] 12:13am
Building without a permit [9] 12:11am
Think I'll Pack It In... contains an attachment [4950] 12:06am
Wedding Fest '09 contains an attachment [28] 12:04am
can you beat $1.84/gal? (USD!) [5 new of 25] Nov-14
Seven Days of Whoopie [10] Nov-14
DJIA under 10,000 contains an attachment [334] Nov-14
what's going to change? [28] Nov-14
Has Bush been coloring his hair [4] Nov-14
Man this place has gotten boring contains an attachment [49] Nov-14
Quantum of Solace [4] Nov-14
Quotable BT Quotes... contains an attachment [5 new of 1248] Nov-14
What do you do? [140] Nov-14
Coleman and Frankin Recount. [31] Nov-14
Hogs Can Teach Us A Lot... [9] Nov-14
R.I.P. Miriam Makeba [7] Nov-14
Well, looky there..Newbies [28] Nov-14
Stop the tavern Bans [132] Nov-14
Now arriving contains an attachment [632] Nov-14
When Repub/Religious right hook up [221] Nov-14
Difference between SEX and RAPE [28] Nov-14
Pet Peeves! Have any??? [6 new of 47] Nov-14
Mac Formats [1 new of 16] Nov-14
VaTom, DougU ...? [6] Nov-14
be very afraid [3] Nov-14
Presidents grey. [3] Nov-14
I've had it.... [11] Nov-14
Where is DougU? [12] Nov-13
Blue?? Mooney?? [11] Nov-13
Credit cards [66] Nov-13
To good to hide in the Tav. [20] Nov-13
brewing beer contains an attachment [48] Nov-13
FYI: America The Illiterate [18] Nov-13
anybody need a job,will trade bike [11] Nov-13
Boy's Club - contains an attachment [14] Nov-13
Car Search Leads To Philly contains an attachment [15] Nov-13
Halloween pics of the family contains an attachment [12] Nov-13
political comment [20] Nov-12
you interrseted in making a few billion? [3] Nov-12
DEA Spies Ousted [26] Nov-12
Money saving ideas [18] Nov-12
Diffrent view from Canadian Bacon [36] Nov-12
Am I the only person left on BT?! [49] Nov-12
Herb Score Died Today [6] Nov-12
Veterans Day 2008 contains an attachment [1] Nov-11
President Barack Obama [71] Nov-11
What is the significance of 19-⅙... [30] Nov-11
Next 50
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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Quote:
post # 2
still figuring this place out, but after reading this thread I think it is more for the old timers to continue insulting each other than just chewing the fat !
perhaps if I knew some of you better I would be just as mean, who knows ?
the nonstop snarling and abuse is too much, I was tired of it there and seem to have walked right into here, and believe me, my day is hard enough trying not to get maimed or killed at work without coming into a place like this to get stressed because some folks just have to grind their axe 24 hours a day .
I do, however, agree with SGs essay on Tauntons declining quality, and have canceled the cooking, sewing, and gardening subscriptions over the past few years because of it. so it is no great loss on my part to not see the Tavern, I have better things to do and now a bit more time to do them.
so I'll just sit this out and see if I'm wrong
I'm not going to waste my time with Taunton or Mzinga to find out why the person I replied to still has access and I don't
Hey, I dunno how many posts are here, but there is 25 pages & not one insult by me ROFLMAO ----- & I think I was one of the first banned except for Andy, but I think he can still view BT.
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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What's that old saying?...Democracy is sometimes brutal and sometimes ugly, but I wouldn't trade it for any other system on this planet? (something like that)
The trouble with overly controlling a forum situation is that it eventually causes the flow of vitality to ebb and whither and die.
The tavern will go on, but it will ultimately bore itself to death........
reminds me of kids in this generation trying to mimic the hippies of the sixties. You can wear the same clothes and say Far out a thousand times, but you will never in a million years grasp the reality of what made that era great and full of life in the first place.
This place here? I think those in charge have already showed their disdain for a vibrant forum (and all the ugliness that that sometimes entails)
And that show of force gesture Luka made towards Splinty and Andy?
Wow man, whats up wid dat? If anything your friend Dino (whoever the hell he is) was just as far off base as anyone else..............do I owe him an apology also?
I mean if you guys wanna be fair and balanced like our friends at Fox you gotta at least try.........
AND what the hell were we invited over here for in the first place if we couldn't vent a bit?
--------------------
thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I think this place is still trying to figure this place out.
This thread has, obviously, gotten an overwhelming amount of attention. I thinks it's where people first enter in, and bring with them what they're carrying.
It's only been a week or so. I'm hoping it settles in and settles down. More threads and topics will bring more elbow room.
I always viewed the Tav as a real bar. The threads were tables. Walk in, settle down, grab a beer, mull around, check the different topics at different tables, stop and say hello to a friend. Tables all over the place. And freinds, or their friends, or total strangers were always willing to have one more at their table. You could table jump or just sit down.
For now, This place(this thread) is like the day after they waxed the floor the night before. Someone pushed all the tables together.I would like to think that people will come in and grab a table and some chairs and find a spot to sit with their friends.
Time will tell.
I'm still standing at the bar -
Wanna help me move some of these tables around?
--------------------
Edited by JHOLE (Sat Nov 15 2008 09:39 AM)
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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This is addressed to all:
Some of you still just don't get it.
What I said has nothing to do with personal agendas.
I actually LIKE everyone who has particpated in this thread. (Whether they have a personal agenda against me and are projecting that onto me... or not.)
And it has nothing to do with disagreement.
What it has to do with, is respect. And civility.
If you do not have respect for the person you are responding to, at least have enough respect for this forum and community to ACT LIKE you have some respect, when you make your post. And post in a civil manner.
I'll stick with the examples I have already used, though there are plenty of other examples to choose from...
Dino disagreed with those he posted to. He never called them names. He held some modicom of respect, at least for the community, and so, stated his disagreement in a level manner.
He has not run around claiming that anyone who doesn't kiss his ass is obviously kissing Taunton's ass, or someone else's ass. He has not called anyone a suck-ass. Etc...
If you can't see the difference between disagreement, and personal insult or attack, then you are destined to go on having the problems you have already had. And you WILL eventually get yourself banned from this forum as well.
What I did was not a show of force.
I am not going to watch this forum go down the chute like the tavern did.
I am moderating up front.
You guys have called for that, over and over. Yet, when I do it, I am some kind of freakin nazi.
Granted, I got angry. I'd been holding off, because of the advice of the other administrators here, and had finally had just too much, and blew up.
Still, I didn't just go and ban people, willy-nilly. I let them know they were over the line, and then let them blow off some steam in return.
Nor did I pick on people I didn't like. Whether it seems like it to anyone here or not, I actually DO like everyone that has posted here.
So, problems are caused, and when I let it be known that I am not going to stand for that, then I am the problem...
Well guess what, I am not going to apologize for what I said. I meant every word of it.
If it had been Cal and Grant that had been over the line, I would have said the same thing to them. Or PlumbBill and BobbyS, or Mike Smith, and Mark Cadiloli. Or SantafreakinClause...
You will keep it civil, or you will see the outside of the door to this place as well.
One more insult or attack, in this thread, and I will close this thread. Or will completely remove it. Or will remove you.
You take it to another thread, and insult and attack, I will delete that thread, and ban your username.
You can voice your opinions without insulting or attacking others. Do so.
~~~
Further, I am not going to listen to a bunch of whiney nit-picking, childish, "well he started it", or "well he said something worse"... Arguments.
No part of my name is "God". I am no more perfect than any of you. I can no more see and remember every detail, than any of you can. Nor can I read this thread a hundred times over, to make sure I have caught every uncrossed t, or undotted i.
If you can't see the big picture, then open your eyes. Put aside your hurt feelings. And consider how you can be a positive addition to this community instead of being negative, whiney, insulting and attacking.
Quit reacting, and start acting.
If you don't want to even try, then you will be no loss to this community...
--------------------
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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Hey Luka.
So Thursday I pull a split shift so I can be in Seattle @ 5 PM.
& low & behold I get stood up by the person who said "Dude ya gotta show up"
So whadupwidat?
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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Well as for me (since I brought up your name) I don't think your a natzi or anthing else. I don't knowingly slander people here or anywhere else....and about the Dino guy? ....you just gotta read between the lines....BUT
I'm done bitching about all this stuff so.......
Don't take it personal man, wasn't intended that way. In all the years I been hanging in Breaktime the only guy I ever really tried to F with was Bob W..........and hey...never claimed to be a saint......
be cool man, everything will pass (and already is)
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Crap !!
I didn't even think to email you, or post over here.
I posted an explanation over at BT, and then plumb forgot about it.
I'm sorry.
Hey, maybe we can schedule another mini-fest. Seaparate from anything like JLC.
I dunno, call it a QuittinTime, Northwet Fest. Instead of a breaktime fest ?
If we plan it ahead of time, we can pick and choose, date time and location, so we can get more people there at the same time.
~~~
We had a repeat of the flood from two years ago.
Just going by what others said, I thought it was worse, or going to be...
Then when it got to nearly the same as it was in 2006, but no worse, I actually checked the facts, and that's pretty much it. Close, but not the same.
Also went down a lot more quickly.
Still washed out part of the road.
And if it hadn't it would be moot anyway. My transmission is kaput !!
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Dood... You can actually SAY nazi, here.
Without misspelling.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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It's OK I'm just flippin ya crap---- hey I can say "crap" without a "K" or use "karp" I feel so adult now.
Dave M told me you had vehicle issues.
Only saw him Harry V, & Aaron Rosenthal ( I probably spelled that wrong).
Stopped by Jim B's job in Browns Point yesturday---- he recognized me, that was a bit of a surprise.
I stepped out of the DW's truck & offended him by saying I saw his job from my deck cause I could see a "blue tarp".
I guess my terminology sucks----- what's wrong with "blue tarp" anyway?
Is Jim gonna host the fest next year? A lot of the responses I got to my "goodbye letter" said I need to go.
Since I'm working swing shift I think I'll whip a batch of my "judicial miscondonduct" chili & bring down there for him & his crew.
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Jeff,
I think on this topic you should lighten up b/c it's OBVIOUSLY a venting thread. Let things take their course.
If I see Dino as kissing Tauntons ass..which I do..then I'm gonna say so..if you wanna ban me then feel free but I'm not gonna get muzzled here or anywhere else for that matter. I already pulled "myself" from BT for a year b/c I was sick of Taunton's games only to come back and tip toed around the place pretty much only to get tossed for being a racist???? LOLOL. How fuged is that??
To me a good forum is a forum that has the people...the community run it "to some degree". Just like a real village...or at least a village I'd like to live in. Thats just my opinion. If we want sterile, there's PLENTY of sterile builders forums out there.
I have yet to see a forum where "builders" can be builders. You want a niche or more of the same? That's up to you. I can as easily go over to JLC and be bored to death. I go over there specifically for building questions so my visits there are minimal being I already know everything...lol.
I said it before...I'd seen in a cpl of different forums like the Forestry Forum or was it The Timber Framers Guild...I forget where...but they had a folder that was an area the advertisers as well as a select few of regular posters could go, to discuss the forum with weekly meetings.
Seems to me everyone can then be represented. Thats up to the people that started the forum. It belongs to them and how far they wanna see it go is up to them. The internet is laced in forums.
This is just a suggestion and it's coming from a caring place. It's a way to have a sort of demmocracy within a vested interest group...wait a minute...I'm a Democratic Socialist.
I dunno...I'd be interested in hearing what others think on this subject....not that it probably matters.
--------------------
www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Only way I could have gotten there, would to have been to start at 3 am. Walk the several miles of railroad track and highway, to get to the nearest bus stop. Then ride the bus all day long with transfer after transfer after transfer...
Well, I'm still gonna apologize.
Least I could have done is email you.
Sorry about that.
Yeah, that Blodgett. Always doing second rate work like that. Dood wood have a blue tarp for a roof, if his wife would stand for it.
I think most of us are hoping real hard that Jim will host the big fest, next August. (Or whenever he decides is the best time for the fest.)
I really like the chili idea !!
Good time for it, too.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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Hey Billy...should we wear it as a badge of honor being the first platoon banned from BT? We can lead those guys outta Iraq now...LOLOLOL
Meetcha over in Afganistan...I hear they have some real good Kief over there...lol..oh yeh..yer a hash kinda guy...sorry.
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Andy,
First let me say that I am glad you have stuck around.
You are one of my favorite people here and at Breaktime. But as you have seen, I am not going to play favorites when it comes to my job, here.
Go ahead, vent.
It isn't just Calvin that has allowed the venting, so far. There are other moderators and administrators here as well. Including myself. We have ALL alowed things to go as far as they have.
But it's time to tone it down now... And start thinking about the future, and letting go of the past.
I take issue not with venting, but with personal attacks and insults.
You can vent without being personally denigrating.
Spin it any way you want, justify it any way you want in your own mind. But calling someone a suck-ass or an ass kisser is simply not acceptable.
And it's not going to be made acceptable by majority concensus.
Think it all you want. But don't say it again, or I'll have to step in again.
I don't need your permission, or anyone else's, to do what I must do, to moderate here. I will do my job.
And if that makes me unpopular, or a nazi, or whatever, in some people's eyes, well I'm sorry. But that will just have to be the way it is.
This place is not sterile. It never will be. Calling it so, doesn't make it so.
In some eyes, apparently either the place has to be a pig stye, or a hospital. There is no in between.
Most of us live in between...
And most of us can disagree without denigration and derision.
Practice namaste.
--------------------
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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ANDYBUILDZ
Reged: Jul 19 2002
Posts: 25
Loc: COLD SPRING HARBOR, LONG ISLAN...
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I give up..
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www.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Why ?
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
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One
Is it getting better?
Or do you feel the same?
You say
One love
One life
When it's one need
In the night
It's one love
We get to share it
It leaves you baby
If you don't care for it
Did I disappoint you?
Or leave a bad taste in your mouth?
You act like you never had love
And you want me to go without
Well it's too late
Tonight
To drag the past out
Into the light
We're one
But we're not the same
We get to carry each other
Carry each other
One
Have you come here for forgiveness?
Have you come to raise the dead?
Have you come here to play jesus
To the lepers in your head?
Did I ask too much?
More than a lot?
You gave me nothing
Now it's all I got
We're one
But we're not the same
We hurt each other
Then we do it again
You say
Love is a temple
Love a higher law
Love is a temple
Love the higher law
You ask me to enter
But then you make me crawl
And I can't be holding on
To what you got
When all you got is hurt
One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should
One life
With each other
Sisters
Brothers
One life
But we're not the same
We get to carry each other
Carry each other
One
One.
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
No - I have no desire to discuss with you your interpretation of what I said.
OK. Didn't take much to interpret these two messages of yours
Edited by rjw (Sat Nov 15 2008 07:57 PM)
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brownbagg
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 13
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has anybody made it back in yet, its been three weeks for me. kinda did me a favor, got real tired of some of the BS, gave me a vacation.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I don't think anybody's goin' back in....at least for quite awhile.
I don't see me goin' back.
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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( Damn - my Firefox keeps re-setting - this is now the fourth time I am trying to type this after logging in here... )
strange you should mention Matt, since I was just thinking of him friday at work. I prefer counting blessings to focusing on life's curses, and his visit here was one of them.
Sorry I did not get much face time with you at the fest.
Let me buy you a cyber-beer here and now - hangover free - and while you nurse it, let me offer an apology for all my past rudeness. I'm sure there are things we can discuss without that.
--------------------
.
Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"What's that old saying?...Democracy is sometimes brutal and sometimes ugly, but I wouldn't trade it for any other system on this planet? (something like that)"
Beats shedding real blood, doesn't it?
--------------------
.
Excellence is its own reward!
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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Quote:
has anybody made it back in yet, its been three weeks for me. kinda did me a favor, got real tired of some of the BS, gave me a vacation.
Only way I'm getting back in is to create a new screen name & I found out that someone in the tavern accused some screen names of being mine, which weren't but oh well let them live in their fantasy.
As to getting back under a new name------ well my jury is still out on doing that.
If I do it will be in 2009 & no sooner.
I do have some things to post in cooking, but getting there is a bit tricky as it wants to route through BT & my screen goes blank when I try that, but if I type in an exact cooking address it bypasses BT.
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calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
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jeez Bill, you think Homeland Security?
nah.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
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Pierre1
Reged: Apr 22 2005
Posts: 13
Loc: British Columbia (Rocky Mounta...
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LOL
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Quote:
someone in the tavern accused some screen names of being mine, which weren't
There have been, and still are, sooooo many absolutely clueless accusations going around.
It would be entertaining, if it weren't so sad...
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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PlumbBill
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 22
Loc: Tacoma Wa
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Quote:
Quote:
someone in the tavern accused some screen names of being mine, which weren't
There have been, and still are, sooooo many absolutely clueless accusations going around.
It would be entertaining, if it weren't so sad...
LOL
I got an email stating "welcome back" I was like huh whatchya talkin about.
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Jeff_J_Buck
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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I know I could get a fake name and post, probably even ask for permission to hit the tavern ... but what's the point.
if I can't speak as myself ... it just ain't for me.
might not be a bad alternative to keep an eye on things, but long term ... why walk around neutered.
it's their place .. their rules ... if they don't like me ... then it's obviously not the place for me. I been kicked outta better places.
I can only censor myself so much ... after that ... it's not much fun ... and the whole point is to make myself giggle every now and then.
other wise ... it's like work. And I have more fun at work than what that'd be ....
On a plus sign ... less time on line ... realized I have a wife ... and actually relearned my kids names.
both of then ... I'd forgotten there were two ...
boy they've grown!
Jeff
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Jeff_J_Buck
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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as the old saying goes ....
Joke 'em if they can't take a F ...
Jeff
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Jeff_J_Buck
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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"I'm still standing at the bar - "
real life ... sit or stand.
ever since I was 16 and started drinking in bars on a fairly regular basis ... I stand.
and usually .... at the bar.
I will stand at a table if need be ... but prefer a spot at the end of the bar ... usually one stool in ... Cath takes that stool ... I stand ... and the rest of the crowd gathers around. Just can't drink comfortably sitting.
I think it goes back to the old days ... bars I "learned the trade in" ... sitting was an invitation to a sucker punch. U have a sense of humor like I do ... U better stand. Also ... standing ... U feel the drinks add up. Lotsa people are suprised by their drink total when they decide to "take a stand" ... stand up ... and quickly fall over.
Jeff
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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Mine did the same at first.Totally blocked.
Deleted cookies, could then go in the front door instead of bookmark.W/ new screenname.
Still that way using JHOLE. Totally blocked.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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My reasons are the same as yours, as far as the Tav goes.
BT, I still scan just 'cause it was never really a point of contention for me and to be honest I think they do ok with that part of their program.
The Tav will never work for me anymore. I have no reason to go out of my way to anger or offend people, but I expect conversations between adults to stray from the line now and then. Within some undertermined level of reason.
Same as any other place where I like to go to have fun.
I would rather deal with a real person,(foibles and flaws), and be offended - Than talk to some sterilized version of what that person would actually like to say.
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I genarally "browse".
Sometimes I take a seat.
Usually 'til her BF comes back.
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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sitting was an invitation to a sucker punch.(quote)
Ha!.......You know it bro.......
by the time you get up and level off... the object of your afliction has time to duck.........
I usta only sit down early in the evening at L&J's Tippin Inn cause later on it was to dangerous.......
man...nausia...stalsia ain't it great?
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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Than talk to some sterilized version of what that person would actually like to say. (quote)
Me too......I quit all my artsy fartsy forums cause of that fact. No one tells the truth.
All that pandering and backslapping.......bores the hell out of me.
Because I've always kept myself on the sidelines (by design), leaving the Tavern is no big deal to me.
It was fun.......specially trysts with the more cantankerous ones........Splinty/Andy/Bob W/....even that dope Larry and Helen Wheels? My all time favorite.
Sure won't miss the ass kissing and complaining though.......
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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"All that pandering and backslapping.......bores the hell out of me."
I've been thinking - and you know how dangerous that is - about how so many guys here are complaining about boring, and statements about how "I gotta be me" even if it means being somewhat offensive to everyone else.
Whatever happened to the concept that peace is a good thing, and that it can be nice to get along with your neighbors? I thought I'd make a good honest stab at it myself.
And for those who would rather fuss to avoid being boring, are you going to be bored with the world at large when Obama brings peace to the world? is this human nature, that there will be some who start wars just to avoid being bored?
Ain't picking on you personally JJ. Just been reading your blog as a matter of fact. I think that is where some of this "thinking" got started....
you asked what I am doing to plan survival earlier.
We do have too much debt, so there could be a disaster. IN the worst of times, I could cash in IRAs to keep stable for another year or so, but that is a losers game. I'm not prepared for the worst. If that comes - I have a lot fully paid for that we could put a teepee on, with a perennial stream - but hoping the very worst does not come.
Like what you wrote about the WAY. But I do think western/Christian thought - my understanding of it, includes WAY as destination as well as journey.
But then my understanding of a lot of things is different from the cookie cutter. How many Mennonites who are life members of the NRA do you know?
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Excellence is its own reward!
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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even if it means being somewhat offensive to everyone else.(quote)
I sorta draw the line about right there.(offending) When I refer to pandering and backslapping it's in the context more like, say I was CEO of a company and all I did was surround myself with "yes" men that would be pandering and kissing my ass constantly (think that is GB's biggest problem from what I hear)
So you get a bunch of guys forming clicks and just having a feel good session is IMO boring as hell.........peace doesn't really fit into the equasion as I see it.
You and I have mostly always gotten along even though I am way farthur left than you will ever be.......how come?
Respect......I respect you and your opinion, even if it is not anywhere's near to being my own..........
Now this respect is what forms a great foundation for good argument, and a lively conversation......(It's alive!!)
Respect is very important in my life ......and I have no particular affection for people who think they are showing me respect by backslapping etc. me.
I expect a persons view of the reality at hand regardless ....even if he tells me I'm full of crap.
As to the blog......(great fun by the way) This is basically what I have done to protect my interests in the coming(perhaps) crisis.
I don't think a guy should at this time be going overboard (and I haven't) but this thing could become very real around here in a matter of weeks.
My wife works at the food bank in town and the roles of those in need have quadrupled in just the last couple months.
You're not being a doom and gloomer, nor are you crying Arramegdon (which I'm not) By advocating that everybody have some sort of plan and preparation just in case. Since I get no feed back I am sorta in the dark as to whether it all even makes any sense.......
What do you think? Am I full of crap or what? :-)
I'm moving on to social/political comment now anyways.....so
How do you like my spiral staircase to the sleeping platform in the small cabin?.......I think it's the smallest I ever seen. of course no code requirements in these parts.
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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I have a lot fully paid for that we could put a teepee on, with a perennial stream
and you could buy what remains of the house across from yer driveway as they'll be willing to sell it much cheaper.
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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Obama brings peace to the world? is this human nature, that there will be some who start wars just to avoid being bored?(quote)
I'm going to save that question for the blog :-) because I, from personal experience, know that a LOT of people would go to war to alleviate the boredom of peace, and haven't we proven that fact throughout the ages?
Have you seen the light and had an eye opening experience concerning Obama?. .......Luke, welcome from the dark side....May the force be with you!
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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ponytl
Reged: Nov 17 2008
Posts: 7
Loc: Memphis, TN
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I just made it over... i mean i understand kick'n you out but me? now that is unthinkable
I did try to contact the powers that be... with zero response... which kinda sucks...
i still read a few posts over there but its the only access i have...
it's their ball... and they don't have to let us play... I originally found breaktime when doing reseach as a marketing consultant... for firms that i still have an active involvement with... in these hard times... ad dollars are the first things looked at as optional (right or wrong)...
I have no clue as to why... but people still pay me for my opinion on where to spend these dollars... I figure if I take someone to the dance... I can take em to a better/different dance if need be... or we can just sit on the sidelines...
p
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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I hadn't gotten so far as to see that stair..
Funny thing ( one that bothers me actually ) about blogs is that the latest is always at top of page, so I scroll to bottom and start reading up. It gives my mouse wheel more of a workout.
I respect you too, and we don't get combative, not that I recall.
I see more and more of economic problems all the time.
My wife has started back to driving for the meals on wheels here which is done as a church outreach and ministry. She learned that they are starting a local food bank too, because even here in a prosperous place,there are people starting to hurt.
One lighter definition of conditions is that we are having a recession if my neighbor is out of work. It is a depression if I am out of a job.
Given that, I have never lived through a depression, but I can see the possibility coming near.
I was talking to the caretaker/property manager yesterday for a place I've been doing a lot of work on. Owner is a broker and money management advisor going way back. This caretaker told me, the owner can *afford* to do any thing he wants to, but will only do what is necesssary right now. For instance he will spend on me to keep rot from getting worse on the houses, but will not spend 80K to upgrade the brightwork in his yacht, or 30K to smooth the belly of his racing sailboat to make it faster. It is all about that he can't stand to be spending too much when he sees that some of his clients have lost a lot of money.
So there is all the way to the top echelon of money people an attitude of "Let's go slow and be carefull here" that has taken over from the freewheeling days not long ago. even if the productive side of the economy stays stable, it will take time for attitudes to turn.
Also, with Obama's election, billions of dollars are leaving the country between election day and Jan first. One couple I know who has already moved millions out are big DEM supporters who donated to Obama, yet they fear for their money in his administration...don't that beat all?
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Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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I honestly don't know what is going on with them. That place is much worse than when I took that picture. The whole west wall is gone now, and the rest of it is sagging two feet of belly through the middle. I thought it would go down last winter. Chimney seems to be the only thing holding it up still.
But once it is gone, the grandfathering on that lot is lost. They will not be able to get another permit to build.
I mow the grass in front for them so I have a place to turn around or park now and then, but that is all that gets done to it.
That would be the view from the teepee tho.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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I'm biding time with Obama to give him a chance - see what he does.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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You kknow what?.....me too. cause there is so much BS going on. I am impressed that he is talking to McCain so soon and I like his ideas on public works, but really I am in the dark (like everyone else as to whether he is good or bad)
I say give him a chance to my kids cause four out of five of them swear he's the anti.christ.......
For all our sakes I hope he can lead us out of this hole. One I see deepening by the way.......
All I'm doing down here is for my kids cause it's all paid for and they are all in debt up to their eye sockets.....
The hearts been acting pretty good lately, so who knows I may just get to enjoy this with the rest of you all.
Take care . . . it's OK to prepare a bit without going all gun-in-the-turret freaky :-) Your Mennonite friends will fare well, I'm sure . . . they are smarter than the rest of us dopes.
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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They mostly practice the "Third Way" when it comes to politics and govt.
Which is that it is OK if your leader is Rep or Dem, my citizenship is in heaven and I'm just a guest here for a while.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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Might it be time for another offer and an explanation of the grandfather clause?
just what is a Santa clause anyhow?
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PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
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could be, but cash is drying up and I'm in the middle of cooking a deal on a tract the other side of me.
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Excellence is its own reward!
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Jeff_J_Buck
Reged: May 05 2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
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the town I grew up in had a coupla choices for us under age'ers to try. Mostly white town.
One town away was mostly black ... both young and old bars.If ya went into one of the old man black bars, kept yer mouth generally shut, and tipped the bartender from the get go you could stay and sip your drafts in peace. The old guys would even warn you about going across the street, to the young block guys bar.
In our town, the best bet was to hit one of the mill bars with the younger crowd and hope to find a friend of my older brother ... sit next to him, offer to buy the next round ... then try your best to fit in.
Bars within walking distance to the front gates of the steel mills and foundry's wer the best bets at getting a beer. By 10th / 11th grade ... you could walk in and sit next to the kid that quit HS that year and went to work at the mill. The bartenders usually thought old enough to work the mill, old enough to drink a beer.
Jeff
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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yep...that's about life in a mill town. I was raised in the samo environment
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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Add me to the list...
Apperantly questioning them as to why they're shutting down "civil" threads or asking for an explanation of the rules is to much for them to handle
Anyone know who the new moderator is? Why he/she's such a dick?
The least they can do is give an explanation and show their face.
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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It's not getting any better over there, is it?
You would think that after they threw everyone out they wouldn't feel threatened anymore.
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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I "know" why I was banned but I think it's chicken shit at best
But to really answer your question, no it's not getting better.
Some guy started a thread about contract payments and down payments. The discusion was a little lively but hardly a flame war and no insults were exchanged. It was deleted.
I started a thread asking why it was deleted, and that thread was deleted. I started 2 or 3 more threads essentially asking the same question they were deleted and I was banned lol
I've already set up a new name, I'm half tempted to act like old Larry and show them what a PITA I can be... On the other hand it's just not worth it.
they have a new moderator and who ever it is is just a moron, plain and simple. If you don't have the balls to show yourself and at the very least give a response it's sad.
All the talk of a boy-cott is a waste of time, It's not that I think the idea is bad in and of itself but it won't accomplish much.
If you want to send them a message... Cancel your subscriptions but even that won't do much if anything IMO....
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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I think you are right that anything we do will have little if any effect.
They are going to have their way come hell or high water.
Just like the magazine, which used to be a shining example of the form, but which has been left to decay.
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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the mag is a glorified TOH at this point, there's still some substance in it but not much.
oh well, I'll hang out here and at JLC
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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Well, at least you went out with your sword in your hand.
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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oh, you think I'm done lol?
we have only begun to fight!
I have to decide myself if I'm up for it... If I do, I'll make Larry look like a saint
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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Don't get yourself in trouble tilting at windmills.
I think Larry is sleeping wit da fishes...
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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Yeah, but he was an idiot.
I can be more vindictive the most people if I find it worth it.
In this case I doubt it's worth it.
If by some chance of luck I happen to run into the powers that be, I would probably give them a quick back hand though
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rez
Reged: Dec 16 2002
Posts: 311
Loc: northeast Ohio
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Cag,
Not worth the hassle to react to someone who doesn't care.
It's not the mods at work but the powers that be behind the throne that cut the paychecks who are distributing the pain.
The mods are just attempting to do the job requested of them and making whatever sensible impact with their peashooters that they can but it's totally out of their hands. I'm thinking the mods are really just pretty decent folk in a hard place.
I got booted off the tavern I guess and as such I am removing myself from the site as I don't want to create anymore turmoil from what the mods must be dealing with on a daily basis.
I really don't understand what has been taking place there but it is losing it's appeal real fast.
Have to admit that there is a bit different feel when it happens to you instead of watching the scenario from the sidelines and just wondering what is going on.
It's a sad day in the history of Breaktime to see so many people receiving the left foot of fellowship from the people who represent the direction of the site.
Reminds me a bit of what happened to MotherEarth'sNews a number of years back after the mag was sold to someone who ran it into the ground and about demolished whatever readership it had
Gladly the mag was finally bought back by the founder and was able to be restored back to a readible magazine.
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jjwalters
Reged: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 48
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One by one the guys who stuck up for Breaktime are coming over to the dark side..........
soon there will be none.....
but one.
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thewayofsurvival.blogspot.com/
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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Quote:
All the talk of a boycott is a waste of time, It's not that I think the idea is bad in and of itself but it won't accomplish much.
If you want to send them a message... Cancel your subscriptions but even that won't do much if anything IMO....
A boycott of posts might send a strong message, if no one was getting any useful answers to questions on BT. But it would have to be well organized and almost unanimously supported. I don't think we have that much support.
The idea of canceling subscriptions is a good one. And maybe refusing to buy memberships on their website, not buying any of their books, etc.
But I don't know how you would make it known to them what exactly the reason was that their sales went down.
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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I can see a vindictive streak in you..go for, we that are still there ( for now) need a good chuckle!
Give em HELL!
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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YOU got the boot? From the TAV only?
Holy Schmoly!
I better see if I'm still there..geezeus.
I wonder Who's Next?
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JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
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I generally don't look back when someone pisses me off.
I do think it would be interesting to see what would happen if noone answered questions. Not to "get them" just to see what would happen - say two weeks or so.
Your parameters are correct, well organized and unamimous. Not worth it to me to set up.
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Heck
Reged: Nov 15 2004
Posts: 164
Loc: La La Land
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I missed it, whast was your transgression?
Were you trying to have a reasonable discussion, or, don't tell me, have a little fun??
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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Are you unable to get into Breaktime, or unable to get into the tavern, or unable to post, or what ????
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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rjw
Reged: Nov 11 2008
Posts: 35
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Quote:
A boycott of posts might send a strong message, if no one was getting any useful answers to questions on BT. But it would have to be well organized and almost unanimously supported. I don't think we have that much support.
FWIW, I suspect they only read the substantive forums looking for some "pull quotes" for the mag.
I doubt if they would even notice a drop in advice from the bootees.
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Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
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I head CapMac got the boot too?
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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Rez,
No reaon to leave BT just yet... SUre the place has gone to hell in a hand basket. In a short time the powers that be will calm down and move onto something of actual importance.
I don't by the moderators have their hands tied by someone with real power... What makes you say that?
In the meantime I'll keep making new ID's as needed. Bobcat was a pussy compared to what I'm willing to do to be a PITA.
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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I go back and forth as to how much hell I want to raise.
In reality I'll loose interest soon enough. But I will stick around for now, no matter how many incarnations it takes.
If I leave it will be based on my decesion and not some pip-squeak with a delete key
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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No. He didn't.
And Rez still has full access as well.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Why did Rez say he got the boot then? You hear different from him? He posted HERE that he was out..what gives?
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Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1387
Loc: The great NorthWet
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How the hell would I know why Rez posted what he did ?
Do I have ESP ?
Some of this stuff is just getting way into the wacky zone. Assumptions this, bravado that, rumor the other. Half-truths, and some downright made up realities...
And everyone reacting to all of it. "It ain't fair that I can't insult people and act any old frikken way that I want to..." Waaaah.
Sometimes I just want to say, grow up.
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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How do you know Rez still has full access
and you can't possibly disagree that some of the "their" actions have been un-reasonable at best.
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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OK, try this..
How do you know Rez has full access?
I'm not one pissin an moanin about being banned, so how about you lose the attitude with me? I was just asking you what gives..
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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check your e-mail if you haven't yet
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spheramid
Reged: Nov 29 2003
Posts: 92
Loc: Waco, Ky
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Just did and did what ya asked..we'll see
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CAGIV
Reged: Jan 02 2003
Posts: 30
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no go, did you post directly to me in a thread?
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BillHartmann
Reged: Nov 20 2008
Posts: 35
Loc: Kansas City, MO
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Re: TAVE
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