JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
|
|
I like your thoughts and agree with most of them.
I find the though of it being our community most interesting. Anyone can host a site. We (you), the users, and people who answer the inquiries consistantly have created the community, and lent our collective credibility to it.
It, in some part, is ours to give, and ours to take away.
Collectively, the huge sucking sound of credibility heading towards the big vitreous trap either makes a difference or it don't. I won't care if it don't, cause they will have flushed me already. I'm just going to try to do something to save my friends while it still looks like a pool.
--------------------
|
splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
|
|
Quote:
Your approach may be an effective one by refusing to be kicked out, but only if a large enough number of posters feel the same way, and have the time, energy, and expertise necessary to mount such a campaign long enough to wear them down. Those that do have the attributes necessary will inevitably lose steam over time, making a sustained effort improbable.
The training curve for getting a free email addresss is really short. Then delete cookies and re-apply to BT. You are instantly accepted, then you post, signing your 'real' handle at the bottom. After my first cycle, i could do get an ID and check in in less than five minutes.
I was expelled on Friday morning from all of BT. By Friday afternoon we were at stalemate. Now imagine 20-30 people doing that...as often as necessary. We can post anywhere, but they have to find it...helpful to us, a handicap to them.
They can ban the ID, but if they make registration very difficult, it hurts THEM for sales to customers. It's such a beautiful bit of poetic justice, i tear up just thinking about it.
They are relying on us behaving better than they are behaving. I suggest we not fight fire with fire, but we can drill a few holes in their gas line.
Che Groupie 
|
MikeSmith
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 971
Loc: Rhode Island
|
|
here's my problem.... i can be as contentious as the next one... and this will sound like the pot calling the kettle black to SOME...
but really.... the Tavern was just a mess for about the last three months
there was serial posting.. repetition... childishness...
peevishness...
name calling...
denigration of not just the candidates running for office.. but also those supporting the candidates running for office
now... some of the people i have known and grown to like over the last 10 years or so ... are gone.....
and so are some of the ones i have gotten to know and dislike in the last three months or so .... are gone with them
did taunton use a heavy hand ?
you bet
what are the chances that they will reconsider and let byfones be bygones ? who knows
if i had to bet.... they'd dump the tavern before they'd give in to a boycott
in short .... i think a cooling off period is in order and then we petition management for reinstatement
but, hey, whadda i no ?
hey.. i forgot ... we got polling ability
boycott.......... yes / no
cooling off & petition.... yes / no
none of the above
|
highfigh1
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
Loc: Mullarkey, WI
|
|
Andy- thanks for the e-mail about this place. How long has it been around?
I PMd Sysop when I read that a lot of people had been banned and never got a reply, just like everyone else. Does nayone know who complained and why they should get preferential treatment, or did we just make some little weenie cry?
--------------------
Bite my shiny metal azz
|
TGNY
Reged: Jan 20 2007
Posts: 18
Loc: NYC
|
|
Well you guys probably aren’t going to like what I gotta say, but here goes.
I agree with most of Colleen’s points, a boycott isn’t going to do much IMO.
I think if anything it will please Taunton that the problem has gone away, less complaints, less annoying e-mails. I think we brought it on ourselves, including some of us here, myself included.
JHole, I know you invited me here, but I thought yours and Buttheads constant bullying of rjw and squarepeg were outta control. I’m surprised you weren’t booted long ago. Listen, rjw annoys the crap out of me at times too, but he’s like the nerd that you protect from the schoolyard bullies. The screaming giant sized fonts and the harsh language was just over the top IMO. And what was with Butt’s little histrionic tantrum last night? I’m not trying to get into it with you, just saying.
I’m sure the parking lot idea you guys had for an alternative forum was well intentioned, but it was clearly viewed as an ambush. The nudie pictures were kinda crass too. You were providing a direct link on Taunton’s property (kind of like the recent real estate sign thread).
I got booted recently and I did my time and kept my mouth shut. JBuck apparently reported me, for something that was so trivial nobody in their right mind would have, yet he was proud of it and bragged about it. Now he’s out and I’m in. He set a precedent, that many are apparently following, and now everybody is being booted. Congratulations.
I also think that Rez’s anti-polijive threads and complaints to the mods just brought more attention and resulted in a backlash of freedom of speech complaints from other posters. Maybe it worked…....if you like an empty tavern.
And also to those who think they own the tavern cause they have been here since day one, well I got news for you, you are no more important then the newbie who just logged on for the first time. This is cyber space, not a real bar.
Like I said before, I have had my flame wars and have probably crossed the line too, maybe the ref was looking the other way that day. I also have taken a lot of crap and just thrown it back or ignored it. I know it has been hot and heavy in there lately but that is just a reflection of what has been going on in the whole country. That’s what made the Tav so special, it is (was) a microcosm of the whole country, with all 50 states, Canada and beyond logging on.
So, I think a boycott is pointless, nobody will miss you in the long run, the Tavern will just become irrelevant and they’ll use the folder for something exciting like ‘The Lunch Pale’ where you can discuss your sammiches ad nauseum. I say, just wait it out, quit fanning the fires and it might all return to normal. Alternatively you can clean this place up, update the jukebox and we can start smashing bottles over here.
Peace
|
splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
|
|
My connection to BT and to Knots is very personal. I met my dearly departed husband on Knots, and grew up politically into an aware individual on both sites, as well as developed very close relationships with several individuals. I don't expect this to matter to Taunton, but it makes defying them a no-brainer.
Taunton fired the light-handed mod over in Knots and replaced him with a Nazi or two who took the Cafe apart in no time. It's now become the de facto Facebook page of a woman who knows practically nothing about woodworking except for tool reviews she's read, and who chastises anyone who looks remotely interested in lobbing a tea bag.
As i see it, those are the options, and we each can face them with defiance or acquiescence. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees, eh?
|
splintergroupie
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 83
|
|
Quote:
but really.... the Tavern was just a mess for about the last three months
The timing of the massacre, the night Obama wins, is truly peculiar. Why not deal with the problems you noted earlier, instead of waiting until the time had come for wound-licking and reconciliation? People were already starting to adjust to the inevitable that very night. Something's hinky with that.
(Hey, this software's easy to use...)
|
Dino
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 6
|
|
What the heck is going on, anyway?
I've been head-down and butt-up laying a bloody, stinkin', floating floor in a tearing-ass hurry and haven't logged on for a couple of days. As a result, I feel like I came into a ballgame during the seventh inning stretch and don't know who's on first.
|
mmoogie
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Westford, NY
|
|
Hi guys,
Thanks for the invite to come over and see how you all are doing. I think it's terrible what happened.
That said, the polijve was out of hand, IMO, but I read a lot of it without participating, and I don't fell scarred for having done so. Just turned off.
In many ways I wish I hadn't read so much of it because I was starting to develop ill feelings towards people whom I otherwise respected.
Anyway, I do feel there must have been a better way for them to cool things off a bit without the wholesale massacre. So I would be willing to participate in a quiet boycott for a given length of time, though I agree with splintie that it won't matter to TPTB. New people will come along and fill the void and life will go on. No one is irreplaceable.
Steve
|
ruffmike
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 1
|
|
Alright, I checked in, read up and would be willing to participate in a boycott, or at least try (it is an addiction after all).
Meantime, I'll go on visiting Breaktime in my passive non-confronting way.
I was afraid I was going to get banned for admitting I used to stuff wall cavities with my scrap butts.
--------------------
There's a fear down here we can't forget.
|
Luka
Reged: Apr 25 2002
Posts: 1383
Loc: The great NorthWet
|
|
Well said.
now... some of the people i have known and grown to like over the last 10 years or so ... are gone.....
and so are some of the ones i have gotten to know and dislike in the last three months or so .... are gone with them
And most of the former were driven away by the latter. Most of the latter were swept out in the 'big boot'. (Along with too many of the former, in my own opinion. But it is what it is.)
what are the chances that they will reconsider and let byfones be bygones ? who knows
In all but a few cases, I'd bet everything I have, on that being the case.
I think we'll see most of those names showing back up again, next week or so.
if i had to bet.... they'd dump the tavern before they'd give in to a boycott
Take it for what it's worth... I was very VERY concerned that that was already going to happen. Especially after reading some of the vindictive, incendiary, totally clueless crap that has passed for 'discussion' of the issue.
I am not certain that it hasn't already happened, and all that is left is the doing of it. Nor am I certain it won't still happen, if it hasn't.
~
We have been here before, and that threat has been put on the table before. It has been a real threat every time.
That same threat was made less than 6 weeks ago, and I am certain that most have already forgotten it. It was, and remains just as serious a threat as at any other time.
Continue to throw gas on the fire, and you'll only burn the tavern down...
~
As I said, the threat has been made before.
Each time, people calmed down.
For a while...
Then after a while everything went right back to hell in a handbasket.
After some of that, TPTB came back and took much more harsh actions. Then again, threatended the tavern.
People got calmer again, and then the cycle started all over again.
Each time, the action taken, has gotten more and more harsh, until now we have, what has just happened.
TPTB do not want calm... for a while. They want us to be civil and have at least a modicum of respect for each other... from... now... on...
I'm thinking that at some point, the cycle is going to get to the point where they have to do something again, and this time, instead of booting people with no explanation, the tavern will simply disappear, with no explanation.
And I think we are damn lucky that that hasn't already happened. I know it has already been pushed for...
It'll come as no surprise that I voted for the cooling off period.
--------------------
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~Samuel Johnson
|
DarylFerguson
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 29
Loc: Cape Breton Canada
|
|
Hi.
Just replying to let you know I received your email. As you know..you and I both left BT for about a year, at the same time...and came back in the same week...how weird was that? But then I left again, for reasons I won't get into. And besides that ...The Woodshed Tavern isn't what it was for me. I also no longer trust people there as I once did. So I'm out regardless. But it WAS a great family.
The blow-up that just happened...I have not a clue about...seems to be just a continuation of what was going on when I was there a few months ago.
But.....I feel that The Shed feeds the fests...and that would be too bad if its demise lessened the fests. There is the Fest Section, but friendships are made in The Tav.
Just my 2 cents worth...or whatever that is in Canadian funds
Peace to all
Newf
PS: Best of luck with this.
|
john7g
Reged: Mar 29 2008
Posts: 15
|
|
I'm here and read the ideas. Too early and not enough sleep to form an opinion yet. I do not, however, agree with the latest mass slaughtering that was done by the mods.
Kinda weird that before I get the msg from JHole I checked in here yesterday for the 1st time in a long time just to look around.
7g
|
Boss_Hog
Reged: Mar 24 2005
Posts: 76
Loc: Carlinville, Illinois
|
|
Splintergroupie -
My concern with you "frontal assult" idea to defy the bannings by creating more and more profiles will only anger them, and will just make them more determined not to let us back in.
A boycott MIGHT do the same thing. But at least it's not so much of an "in your face" response.
What's the goal here? Do we want back in? Do we want revenge? Or some combination of the above?
I want back in. But only with my original "BossHog" screen name. If I don't get that I ain't going back.
--------------------
.
|
DonCanDo
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 1
Loc: New Jersey
|
|
I'm not banned, but I am really disheartened by the way FHB is handling this whole siutaion. Chidlishly even deleting threads. I thought that they were part of the BT community, but apparently, they have a different agenda.
You, and others, have been invaluable contributers to the BT community and I hope you don't stay away forever even though it looks like that's exactly what FHB wants. I imagine it must feel like a kick in the pants and you may not even want to come back. After all, they're even hunting down alter-egos. It's as if it's become personal. I have not doubt that whatever (probably unwilling) employee was tasked with cleaning up BT, is probably reading this thread to make sure that they don't get blind-sided.
I agree that a boycott is not likely to have any effect. In the absolute worst case scenario, where BT becomes a train wreck, they will just close it down. Not just the Tavern, but the whole thing. Why wouldn't they? They'll save money in the short term and the long-term loss of sales on books, dvd's and magazines won't be noticed until the next management turnover.
I have learned too much on BT to give up on it yet, but FHB has to learn to take the good with the bad. Right now, they throwing out babies with the bathwater and it will diminish the overall value of BT. I think they're making a mistake, not just ethically, but even from a pure business perspective. But hey, it's their house to ruin.
I don't have much else to say. I mostly just wanted to lend some moral support to "the damned". I know you're quite tenacious, I hope others are as well.
|
remember
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 42
|
|
I got your email, Andy.
Just a caution, Colleen. Doin' what you have suggested could result in criminal prosecution.
If anyone goes that route, maybe post from a wi-fi hotspot or public computer to make it harder to trace.
Mike Rooney
--------------------
- Mike Rooney
Mon Coeur S'ouvre A Ta Voix
|
PIFFIN
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 94
Loc: Island in Maine
|
|
fter my dust-up with Colleen and Tony, I got a warning myself and deserved a bann.
But truth be told, the Tavern lately had gotten so bad that I was in a mood that I did not give a flyin F*** whether I got banned or not. Could be partly why I let go as much as I did.
Anyways - I don't think a boycott will do much good or carry weight with Taunton. They're more likely to just think, "Good Ridddance"
Splintie has good points but I would take them farther...
I tend to be an all or nothing kind of guy. Pretty peacefull up to some certain point. Go along to get along, but
IF
I were in on trying to reform the mods at BT by doing war with them, I would not only organize a boycott, I would include phone calls to the office - hundreds of them.
And I would incorporate Splinties ides,
And I would have us use alternate IDs to loggin and do guerilla warfare not only in the Tavern, but in the main boards as well. No outright WRONG advice that would hurt any innocent bystander trying to do his own DIY. But a lot of dilutory cr@p that would have the effect of watering down everything there and rendering the entire site nearly worthless.
THAT is their calling card and the value of the forum - those of us who participate in the main forum with GOOD advice that helps people. Taunton gets that for free, and we get whatever kick we get for out egos out of helping somebody else.
It does not get Taunton's attention when Tavern members have to go crawl home on their knees drunk from a nights fighting, not when they crawl back again begging permission to participate in another brawl.
But IF you wanted their attention, two weeks of diluting the value of the main forum with silly songs and suggestions, along with dozens of false IDs would do that.
But I can tell you how I would re-act to such a tactic if I were Kevin, and it would not be pretty and you would not win. I would know that the end result of dealing with a bunch of guerilla revolutionaries is that they fragment and once you bow to their demands then a yet more revolutionary group splinters off and demands more, and then more again, etc, etc, etc. So regardless the cost, I would win that war.
So once you start down a road like that, you need to be willing to drive the knife in to the hilt and twist, not afraid to get blood on your hands.
I'm not there. I don't think a war like that benefits anybody. I pick my battles, and this ain't one of them. I do sympathize with those of you who got booted unfairly and without warning and I could easily have been amoung you, but I knew ahead of my fighting with Tony that had I gotten booted, that I would have been just like he did, in waiting out my time.
Meanwhile, my main reason for being at BT is to help DIYs. Maybe it's time for me to focus more strongly on that. If I get bored, maybe it's time to go play with the dog instead of clicking threads in the Tavern.
--------------------
.
Excellence is its own reward!
|
jlazaro317
Reged: Nov 09 2008
Posts: 2
Loc: Indianapolis,IN
|
|
Don't know if it will get anywhere, but I'm onboard with a boycott and cooling off period as Mike suggested. I think the mods have gone a wee bit overboard and everyone needs a little cooling off. I want to see the regulars back on Breaktime.
|
calvin
Reged: Apr 29 2002
Posts: 2388
Loc: NW Ohio
|
|
Yo Don, I see you brought up something that I gave thought to b/4 I inserted a link to here in a post at BT.
I have no doubt that whatever (probably unwilling) employee was tasked with cleaning up BT, is probably reading this thread to make sure that they don't get blind-sided.
Whomever the poor person is from Taunton that gets to monitor this whole episode is more than welcome to peruse these discussions. And they are encouraged to respond-maybe then we can get a handle on the reasoning behind it all.
I posted the link to get some discussion going off the board so even the banned ones would be able to join in. I see a few took the more direct route using the private message email feature. Seems to be working pretty decent-hopefully more will join in.
--------------------
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City
|
JHOLE
Reged: Nov 08 2008
Posts: 258
Loc: Oregon. Ohio
|
|
I would think that would be the next logical step - after the players of the team are in place - comprising a common goal.
Maybe the goal will be reflected by the size, desires, and commitment of the pool of players.
Personally, I am a blank page at this point, tactically.
Emotionally, I'm a little pissed at the treatment of the community. I would also like to see "the community" have a chance to continue on whether it be at the Tavern or at a offsite location (here, start a new location, ..., ???)
I also would like the BT portion continue on as it had up until recently. I feel that it sucks that people are getting booted from BT for something they did in the Tavern. Especially when the Tavern guidlines are so arbitrary. I would not be real interested in continuing investing in such a scetchy organization.
It seems to me that there are two seperate structures at play. BT and the Tav. The people who go to the Tav are generally the support structure for the BT side of things. But, noone says that they have to be in the same location.
I would think that Taunton would be more than happy to be done with the Tav. I would also think that the members of the Tav would be more than happy to see Taunton out of the role of running it.
Why does the Tav have to be under the umbrella of FB? Let's just say we move it over here. You can still reference things that happen at BT, cut / paste, carryon as usual - without the threat of "the man". Hell I bet if we all throw some money to QT, we could fix this place up real nice. We could end up getting all the things that we have begged for up to now and haven't gotten - Quazi seperate poli room for Rez and Others who would like it, etc...
I'll throw this out there. We ask taunton to reinstate everyone back to BT, where there has never really been a problem. And tell them when we're done with helping them, we'll come over to our own Tavern. One more bookmark, big deal. Hell none of us are really in the same place anyway - why does it have to be there?
No boycot, no JABS at them, just a mutually beneficial existance.
--------------------
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
